News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Flattr is closing down by infecto on Thursday January 18, 2024 @07:33AM (#39040953)
Sadly agree. I still wish when it came to news sites there was a micropayment option so I could read a single article for $0.10 or something along those lines.
Re:Flattr is closing down by vintermann on Thursday January 18, 2024 @08:07AM (#39041202)
You want to be nickeled and dimed?

That was the whole problem Flattr was trying to solve. You decided up front how much you could afford to spend supporting artists and pursuits of creativity and public goods, and it got distributed evenly between everyone you choose to support. It was a great idea, and I was an early user.

However, they had the problem that most of the people who you might want to support, were not on Flattr. And Flattr made a poor move early on: in a bid to avoid getting spammed by low effort/beggars, they demanded that you give and take: If you wanted to be able to receive, you had to use the service yourself.

This was eminently fair. It was also a disaster, because it exposed a fact that's obvious when you think about it, but which is a crush to most "creatives"' ego: The vast majority of us are net consumers! We watch way more than we create ourselves. Most minor bloggers/youtubers/podcasters wouldn't want to admit that, they'd just see "I pay more than I get out of this? This sucks!"

Later they backed down from this demand, and then they got the problem with low effort/begging. All along they had the problem that some influential people really wanted to see them fail, due to their association with The Pirate Bay.

Re:Flattr is closing down by nradov on Thursday January 18, 2024 @10:35AM (#39043005)
Yes, I want to be nickeled and dimed for content. There's no way I'm going to sign up for any more subscriptions. But I would be happy to pay a few cents for individual articles or videos or podcasts if it was a single click process.

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/the-case-for-micropayments/

Re:Flattr is closing down by jstummbillig on Thursday January 18, 2024 @07:43AM (#39041019)
Since we have to assume that they assessed it, I suspect that they concluded the math would not work out.

A possible explanation: News websites are cross financing their content. You spending a dollar on the paper, that only interests you in parts, is part of a model that makes it work (and probably also part of a model, where papers still feel wiggle room to editorialize for stuff they think is important, even though it might not click)

Re:Flattr is closing down by rchaud on Thursday January 18, 2024 @11:23AM (#39043679)
News websites are not independently owned. NYT is publicly traded, Wash Post is owned by Bezos, Time Magazine is owned by Benioff, etc.

They survive on patronage outside of their subscriber base.

Re:Flattr is closing down by LadyCailin on Thursday January 18, 2024 @08:11AM (#39041232)
There is, or anyways there was, but the model didn’t work. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blendle

It still exists, sort of, you can download the app, but it’s all in Dutch now, and doesn’t work on a pay-per-article model anymore, it’s unclear to me what their model is now, since I don’t speak Dutch. In any case, what you’re asking for exactly was a thing before, and failed, so I assume that’s why you can’t do it - it was tried, and people didn’t use it.

Re:Flattr is closing down by infecto on Thursday January 18, 2024 @08:27AM (#39041408)
This is one of those things where I wonder if it was too early for its success? I don't know the answer but it feels like it could have been. I have never seen it used on US based media unfortunately.
Re:Flattr is closing down by LadyCailin on Friday January 19, 2024 @09:49AM (#39056131)
It was. You could read newspapers like NYT and Washington Post, New Yorker (maybe not those exactly, it’s been a while), but there was a large number of US publications. I guess it could have been too early, but I just feel like the demand wasn’t really there. People didn’t link to Blendle articles, they linked to NYT articles, and I didn’t really think about Blendle, and instead just found the archive.to link or whatever. But I dunno. I too would love a model like this to take off, but it just didn’t.
Re:Flattr is closing down by colesantiago on Thursday January 18, 2024 @07:39AM (#39040991)
> still wish when it came to news sites there was a micropayment option so I could read a single article for $0.10 or something along those lines.

Same. I'm shocked that the NYT didn't use Flattr on their articles for this.

To access the full version of the NYT currently costs $0.50 a week so it would have been possible the NYT could charge $0.50 per article, or $5 for the year (one time no subscription) through Flattr or something along those lines.

I could definitely see this working at scale.

Re:Flattr is closing down by sgerenser on Thursday January 18, 2024 @07:53AM (#39041099)
The $0.50 weekly price for NYT is a teaser rate. The full price for digital only was recently raised to $195/year. I imagine they make too much money from people who subscribe at the teaser rate and forget to cancel (like all newspapers/magazines) to make it worth exploring other business models.
Re:Flattr is closing down by dageshi on Thursday January 18, 2024 @07:47AM (#39041061)
We have to assume they have considered this in the past and come to the conclusion it just doesn't work.

I suspect tying a purchasing decision to every page visit just leads to people automatically backing out of the page with a very low conversion rate because it's just too annoying to decide whether to pay for something you're not sure the value of.

Despite all the gnashing of teeth, nothing competes with ads on the web.

Re:Flattr is closing down by infecto on Thursday January 18, 2024 @08:24AM (#39041374)
Since most news publications are failing businesses I would not immediately assume they have considered all avenues of monetization.

I agree that ads have historically made a lot of money...but I am thinking of the paywalled industry. I am probably in the minority but I would be interested if any of the major publications had data on this kind of strategy. I realize there have been products including Flattr that did this but again I never saw it being using on a NYT level publication.

Instead of me reading an archive link or just not reading the article at all I would be happy to pay some cents to consume it.

Re:Flattr is closing down by amadeuspagel on Thursday January 18, 2024 @04:09PM (#39047782)
The NYT is very much not a failing business.
Re:Flattr is closing down by infecto on Thursday January 18, 2024 @06:49PM (#39049653)
Thanks for the downvote but I said most not all. If you look at the news/magazine industry though it has not made a good transition to the internet age. Lots of closures and consolidations with some of the major outlets acquired as almost toys for the rich.

It’s very much a shell of what it once was.

Re:Flattr is closing down by JoshTriplett on Thursday January 18, 2024 @06:39PM (#39049550)
> We have to assume they have considered this in the past and come to the conclusion it just doesn't work.

Or that they prefer the world in which it doesn't take off because they expect to make more money, at least in the short term.

If they believe that they can still convince N users to buy $195/year subscriptions, versus getting 10N users to pay a net total of $10/year in per-article fees, then they're better off trying to convince the N users to subscribe. Which might* work for the biggest dozen newspapers with brand recognition, but won't work as well for the long tail of news sites.

Re:Flattr is closing down by eknkc on Thursday January 18, 2024 @07:43AM (#39041034)
I come across paywalled articles at least a couple of times a week. I’d gladly pay $0.50 for most of them to access the single article.

It just needs to be easy, don’t make me create an account a subscription and shit like that. Things like cryptocurrencies could work great for these kinds of transactions. Shame it became what it is now.

Re:Flattr is closing down by infecto on Thursday January 18, 2024 @08:26AM (#39041396)
Thats the boat I am in. I don't even care if they show me ads too, I just want to get around the paywall but I don't want to pay for a subscription.
Re:Flattr is closing down by rchaud on Thursday January 18, 2024 @11:20AM (#39043634)
Are you able to purchase anything for 10 cents today? The price of a short self-published ebook on Amazon is 30x that, $2.99, and plenty of people buy those.

I understand that low-quality blog posts are worth nothing but if a viable micropayment option existed, those lazy posts would disappear (they only exist for SEO and collecting ad impressions). Websites and blog content would be more like what Substack has, which is semi-longform stuff that doesn't need to be padded with "blog" style posts.

Re:Flattr is closing down by infecto on Thursday January 18, 2024 @06:52PM (#39049686)
Hope the price was not hanging you up. I don’t know what the price is and it’s certainly variable depending on the content length and publication. Maybe for a long Journal/NYT expose it’s a $1…
Re:Flattr is closing down by itsoktocry on Thursday January 18, 2024 @12:38PM (#39044778)
>so I could read a single article for $0.10 or something along those lines.

But there is "something along those lines"; it's called becoming a paid subscriber. When you amortize the expense across every article, you may even be getting a deal!

The fact that the example expense you'd be willing to incur to read content you actually enjoy is ten cents speaks to why this model won't work.

Re:Flattr is closing down by apantel on Thursday January 18, 2024 @02:57PM (#39046781)
Content just isn’t worth a lot because nobody really needs any particular piece of information all that much; and if they do really need a piece of information, chances are it is available in many places.
Re:Flattr is closing down by Thrymr on Thursday January 18, 2024 @05:09PM (#39048543)
Sure, but we all have subscription fatigue. Say I subscribe to the New York Times and the Atlantic. But sometimes I like to read articles in the Washington Post or the New Yorker. How many subscriptions are enough? It's just like streaming fragmentation with Netflix, Apple+, Amazon Prime, Hulu, ad infinitum.
Re:Flattr is closing down by JoshTriplett on Thursday January 18, 2024 @06:34PM (#39049498)
That "works", somewhat, if you want to get all your news from one place. That's the traditional newspaper model: most people don't get a dozen papers delivered.

But many people do read articles on dozens of different sites in a month. And that's a good thing; a world in which people get their news from a variety of different sources seems like a fundamentally better world.

Newspapers and news subscriptions were financially viable in a world where most people had a subscription and that's where they got most of their news. They may not be financially viable in a world in which most people don't have or want to read only one or two sources of news. And that's fine.

Re:Flattr is closing down by infecto on Thursday January 18, 2024 @07:08PM (#39049850)
Don’t get hung up on the price I listed, it’s just an example which is dependent on publication and article length/content.

Your argument is pretty weak too. Of course I could subscribe but obviously I don’t for any number of reasons. I am saying I wish I could pay on a per article price. Sorry for wanting to pay for the content I consume.