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Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by prof-dr-ir on Friday January 12, 2024 @08:02AM (#38967453)
> currently ongoing in the UK

To be precise it is finally getting some of the attention it deserves, both from the public and from the government.

The miscarriages of justice date from 1999 until 2015, and the high court ruling (about the software being faulty) that finally stopped the flow of convictions dates from 2019, almost five years ago. Very little happened since then, and in particular no one has been held accountable.

If that delay sounds absolutely bonkers to you then yes, that is what everyone else thinks as well.

Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by krisoft on Friday January 12, 2024 @08:27AM (#38967664)
> Very little happened since then, and in particular no one has been held accountable.

Even crazier. The Post Office just recently lowered(!) the amount of money they allocated for compensations: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67784706

They basically allocated a pot of money to pay the people they have harmed off. But these people had to actively go out and request their conviction to be overturned. Which of course many people were reluctant to do, since it means they would be upturning their life again, and going to court and finding lawyers and etc. They understandably have very little trust in the system. So Post Office just shrugged and decided they don't need to keep that much money around.

Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by matteason on Friday January 12, 2024 @09:29AM (#38968333)
And all the while Horizon is still in use and still making money vanish - via both bugs and the £95 million paid to Fujitsu to keep it going for another two years: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67940125
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by scott_w on Friday January 12, 2024 @08:54AM (#38967926)
> Even crazier. The Post Office just recently lowered(!) the amount of money

It's even worse: they're still fighting hard against the appeals, heaping more misery on the people trying to turn their lives around!

Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by dan-robertson on Friday January 12, 2024 @10:04AM (#38968833)
What exactly does ‘fighting hard’ mean? I got the impression that the judges weren’t very impressed with at least some of their appearances in court.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by ndsipa_pomu on Friday January 12, 2024 @10:50AM (#38969493)
They're hiding/losing evidence such as emails and refusing to answer questions.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by tuukkah on Friday January 12, 2024 @11:32AM (#38970129)
They hire expensive lawyers who are experts in making black look white.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by scott_w on Friday January 12, 2024 @03:16PM (#38973386)
I think you highlighted it right there. They’re fighting even the slam dunk appeals, which is fucking disgusting, in my opinion.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by lozenge on Friday January 12, 2024 @06:18PM (#38975496)
They offer token settlements, require the victim to provide lots of evidence they wouldn't have, and expect them to pay for their own lawyers to invoke legal arcana that would get them a just compensation.

https://www.taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/01/11/hss_scandal/

Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by miohtama on Friday January 12, 2024 @09:11AM (#38968119)
Sounds like lawyers are at the driving seat
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by dccoolgai on Friday January 12, 2024 @09:19AM (#38968199)
IANAL but in my experience, the lawyers would say "doublecheck everything and if we're wrong, pay them so I don't have to spend a lot of effort litigating this". No, I would bet it's a combination of PR flacks and MBA/C-levels who would rather ruin lives than take a clear L on their record.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by mcguire on Friday January 12, 2024 @03:02PM (#38973209)
Lawyers don't like losing cases.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by scott_w on Friday January 12, 2024 @05:11PM (#38974818)
This is the leadership instructing the lawyers to fight the case. They can stop it at any time but they choose to continue the misery of their victims instead of admitting fault.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by LaundroMat on Friday January 12, 2024 @04:35PM (#38974445)
Effort = income, so I don't see why certain lawyers would not be willing to do the case.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by alphaomegacode on Friday January 12, 2024 @05:29PM (#38975026)
Seems one of the former senior executives of Fujitsu now runs a gov't agency that handles contracts to digital services vendors like...Fujitsu.

Not sure how the legal authorities work in the UK but people have to be held accountable, regardless of political party. One would think the government's legal authorities have to act on behalf of the citizens not just in holding persons criminally responsible but also compensating victims.

https://democracyforsale.substack.com/p/tory-donor-fujitsu-p...

Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by tgv on Friday January 12, 2024 @09:27AM (#38968300)
The little that happened can be summarized as: the Post Office CEO from 2015 to 2019 got a CBE when she stepped down.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by SOLAR_FIELDS on Friday January 12, 2024 @10:22AM (#38969084)
For those not from the UK like myself that had to figure out what CBE is - it stands for a title called Commander of the Order of British Empire. It’s granted to honor notable service in various areas, including public works like the Post Office. This acronym is apparently common enough to people from the UK that news stories within the UK call it CBE without explaining what the acronym means, so your average UK citizen must know exactly what it means.

Most people from the USA are probably familiar with the term “knighthood” or “being knighted” from the UK which is referring to the same award process but higher ranking. The two titles above CBE apparently are what knighthood refers to, known as KBE/DBE (Knight/Dame Commander of the Order of British Empire) and GBE (Knight/Dame Grand Cross of the Order of the British Empire, the highest honor). So CBE is essentially the third highest honor that can be granted in this fashion.

Related to the story, it seems like the CEO in question was forced to give up the CBE title two days ago in relation to this scandal

Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by tialaramex on Friday January 12, 2024 @11:07AM (#38969729)
There are a bunch of different orders you can get knighted in, the British Empire is just one of them, for example the fictional James Bond has a CMG, (Companion of the Most Distinguished Order of St Michael and St George), and the actor Daniel Craig who played him also has a CMG, although unlike Bond he has not turned down a KCMG (Bond turns down the knighthood because it makes you more of a public figure which is undesirable for an active secret agent whereas it's no problem for an actor).

The Order of St Michael & St George is also famous because it's how the "Yes, Minister" joke works: CMG stands for "Call Me God". And KCMG for "Kindly Call Me God" / What does GCMG stand for? / "God Calls Me God".

She was not yet "forced" to give it up, although that is likely the end result. These honours are notionally bestowed by the Monarch (so these days, Charlie) under advice, so a committee will decide that yup, Paula clearly shouldn't have this honour, take it away, and Charlie will sign the appropriate paperwork. What she's done so far is write asking that it be taken away, which is almost nothing.

Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by sorokod on Friday January 12, 2024 @12:13PM (#38970808)
Her name is Paula Vennells.

I take this opportunity to reinforce the association of her name with the scandal in future web searches.

Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by Wistar on Friday January 12, 2024 @02:32PM (#38972798)
So, Paula Vennells's Post Office scandal?
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by sorokod on Friday January 12, 2024 @02:47PM (#38972994)
Yep, the same Paula Vennells that got a CBE in 2019 for services to the Post Office.

https://www.gov.uk/government/people/paula-vennells

Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by rad_gruchalski on Saturday January 13, 2024 @07:30PM (#38986182)
Empire strikes back.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by SOLAR_FIELDS on Friday January 12, 2024 @11:34AM (#38970163)
Interesting, thanks for sharing. Based on your comment I looked it up and found 6 other orders, including Order of Saint Michael and George that you mentioned. OBE is apparently not the most prestigious one, the highest and most prestigious one is apparently called The Most Noble Order of the Garter. Interesting slice of old royal UK culture.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by pmyteh on Friday January 12, 2024 @12:23PM (#38970952)
Yes. The Garter and the Thistle (and the Order of Merit) are exclusively small and also in the personal gift of the sovereign. The Order of the British Empire is much larger and appointments are made on advice from the government.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by ChrisSD on Friday January 12, 2024 @10:49AM (#38969465)
Just to clarify, I doubt many people from the UK would know off hand what CBE stands for even though they know what a CBE is. The full name is pretty archaic in any case so it's basically just trivia at this point.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by Lio on Friday January 12, 2024 @02:59PM (#38973162)
Really? I was under the impression this was common knowledge. Certainly within my family.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by at_a_remove on Friday January 12, 2024 @10:49AM (#38969464)
She said she will give it back. Which doesn't mean anything, King Charles would have to agree to it.

She didn't say she would give back the associated money she got.

Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by ndsipa_pomu on Friday January 12, 2024 @10:56AM (#38969587)
She was CEO from 2012 and started at the Post Office in 2007 as group network director. She may not have started the miscarriage of justice, but she certainly doubled down on it.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by chris_wot on Friday January 12, 2024 @04:57PM (#38974682)
She was also, until very recently, an Anglican minister.
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by peterfirefly on Friday January 12, 2024 @10:35AM (#38969263)

  "Ordener hænger man paa Idioter,
  Stjærner og Baand man kun Adelen gier,
  men om de Mallinger, Suhmer og Rother,
  man ej et Ord i Aviserne ser.
  Dog, har man Hjærne,
  kan man jo gjærne
  undvære Orden og Stjærne."
(A verse from a satirical song from 1790 -- "orders are hung on idiots".)
Re:Post Office lied and threatened BBC over Fujitsu dev whis... by daniel-s on Friday January 12, 2024 @06:06PM (#38975382)
Once that happens what is the process to overturn the old convictions?