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Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by bmitc on Thursday January 11, 2024 @03:27PM (#38958505)
Microsoft is much more diversified than that. They have entire consulting services and a world class research arm and many other things that Apple has no analog of.
Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by bch on Thursday January 11, 2024 @03:32PM (#38958572)
> world class research arm

Honest question: does Wall Street care? In my experience, this is the kind of thing that’s (rightly or wrongly) considered a “cost center”, not a “profit center”.

Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by bonestamp2 on Thursday January 11, 2024 @03:53PM (#38958884)
I think you're right, investors don't really value the research arm until something profitable comes out of it and then they only value that thing that came out of it and not research arm itself.

In some sense, that is the right move. For example, Intel was a market leader for decades while their research arm was very stagnant for many years too. Other times, it is short sighted not to price in what might be to come because you miss buying shares on the cheap before a huge technology/product leap.

Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by ephemeral-life on Thursday January 11, 2024 @07:52PM (#38961992)
> does Wall Street care?

Some people on wallstreet do. In Mckinsey's book Valuation, they make it pretty clear to the reader that companies who spend a lot on r&d tend to have outsized returns compared to their counterparts, who don't spend that much.

Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by bionsystem on Friday January 12, 2024 @12:32AM (#38964295)
I'd say the whole market gives a premium to companies with R&D spend, that's part of the reason why they have higher valuation metrics (alongside growth, margins and other quant factors). That is, when they are not stupidly burning it or giving it away as stock compensation.
Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by dataangel on Thursday January 11, 2024 @04:12PM (#38959148)
Ignorant question: Does much actually make it out of MS Research? I've seen lots of interesting retrospectives on stuff that either failed or just has never come out of the lab (Singularity/Midori, accessibility demos showing phones reading restaurant menus to the blind, their tablet pre-ipad, etc.) but I don't think I know of anything they made that really grew up off the top of my head.

I didn't want to say this without doing a little bit of homework so I checked their Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Research) which doesn't list any accomplishments, just claims they have a lot of patents, and their main site has a publication index (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publications/?) but publication is not a good metric for ever seeing use.

Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by breadwinner on Thursday January 11, 2024 @04:25PM (#38959311)
> Does much actually make it out of MS Research?

Nope. Microsoft Research has some luminaries such as Leslie Lamport, Christopher Bishop, Xuedong Huang and others, but as far as actual research output that has been commercialized, there is not much to show off.

Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by namaria on Friday January 12, 2024 @03:26AM (#38965516)
> there is not much to show off

Except a 2.8 trillion dollar valuation at the top of the biggest stock market in the world.

Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by speps on Thursday January 11, 2024 @04:23PM (#38959291)
Back in 2014 for the release of Kinect Sports Rivals, the tech to scan people and extract their body details into the right face shapes to match them with a virtual avatar. That came from MS Research Cambridge as far as I know.

Here is a video of it demo'd: https://youtu.be/YKkULaN7J9o

Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by scns on Thursday January 11, 2024 @04:30PM (#38959376)
Is Simon Peyton Jones still at Microsoft? He is is at Epic Games now IIRC. Lennart Poettering is there though last i heard.
Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by dataangel on Thursday January 11, 2024 @04:35PM (#38959466)
Oh yeah I didn't mean to imply the people there never produce anything that gets widely used in their whole careers, I'm specifically asking if it ever happens while they are at MS Research.
Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by bmitc on Thursday January 11, 2024 @04:43PM (#38959596)
There are several examples. F# came from Microsoft Research and has also fed into C#. Also, Haskell.

Note that it does research and not R&D. You aren't going to get products from research but rather technology advancements that then get incorporated. That happens a lot, and they obviously publish a lot.

Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by jlokier on Friday January 12, 2024 @10:39AM (#38969315)
Fwiw, Haskell is not from Microsoft Research.

The Haskell 1.0 specification was published before Microsoft Research existed at all.

(I worked briefly on a Haskell compiler in those days.)

Re:Microsoft overtakes Apple as most valuable company by thefz on Thursday January 11, 2024 @05:02PM (#38959921)
Read or watch something about how flight simulator was built, as an example