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Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by Dalewyn on Wednesday January 10, 2024 @03:44AM (#38937835)
>"No, you need to enter your name in kanji. Of course, everyone has a kanji name, right?"

Do they actually block hiragana and katakana? If they do that's probably grounds to sue.

>refusing half-width roman characters

With maybe the exception of arabic numerals, Japanese is nearly always written in full/monospace width. This is not unlike how English is nearly always written in half/proportional width.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by bschwindHN on Wednesday January 10, 2024 @03:49AM (#38937874)
> Do they actually block hiragana and katakana? If they do that's probably grounds to sue.

I don't have evidence at the ready, but I remember interacting with websites which complained about receiving katakana for both the name and カナ field for your name.

> With maybe the exception of arabic numerals, Japanese is nearly always written in full/monospace width. This is not unlike how English is nearly always written in half/proportional width

Yes, I'm fine with them using it. But they could put in a _little_ bit of work for me and convert my half-width characters to full-width, as the good websites here do.

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by Dalewyn on Wednesday January 10, 2024 @04:21AM (#38938103)
The kana field is for indicating how the name is read (remember, kanji can be read in many ways), and consequently how the name should be indexed and sorted inside databases and other data stores.

If the field wanted only either hiragana or katakana (remember, it wants a simple reading guide) and complained, I'm not necessarily surprised.

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by bschwindHN on Wednesday January 10, 2024 @04:35AM (#38938211)
I'm specifically talking about the kanji field, not the kana field. If your name doesn't have kanji (which mine doesn't), you can really only enter katakana. And I've encountered forms which refuse katakana for that field, and which also refuses half-width or full-width roman characters.

What do you do at that point?

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by Dalewyn on Wednesday January 10, 2024 @04:37AM (#38938232)
I would just enter hiragana and move on with my day, and if that doesn't work I would just pick arbitrary kanji using standard readings to roughly spell out my name (this practice is known as 当て字, ateji).

It's not my problem they have to deal with malformed data if that's all they will accept.

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by ytch on Wednesday January 10, 2024 @04:19AM (#38938081)
> Do they actually block hiragana and katakana? If they do that's probably grounds to sue.

many websites in Japan has two name field: one is kanji, another is katakana.

https://shinkabukiza.pia.jp/membmng/RegisterNormalAction.do

Take this for example, the field in first row is full-width kanji, second one is full-width katakana.

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by Dalewyn on Wednesday January 10, 2024 @04:33AM (#38938194)
The お名前 (onamae) field is for your name as written in Japanese normally, and it should take any of kanji, hiragana, or katakana as appropriate so long as it is 全角 (full width) and the programmer didn't screw up.

The フリガナ (furigana) field is to indicate how the name given above is read, because kanji can have many readings including completely arbitrary ones. This also serves to indicate how computers should index and sort the names when storing and processing them, so it's still applicable even if the name is all hiragana or katakana and immediately obvious.

Furigana is also used to indicate how to read kanji in ordinary text, oftentimes when dealing with rare kanji or special readings, when the text must be comprehensible by everyone (eg: emergency bulletins), or when the text is written for people learning Japanese (eg: school textbooks).

Furigana is usually written using hiragana, so the reason 全角カタカナ (full width katakana) is specified instead of just full width is to inform the form's filer that he shouldn't write hiragana like he otherwise probably would.

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by qingcharles on Wednesday January 10, 2024 @03:24PM (#38942602)
Does a lot of that come from the fact that names can use kanji outside of the common 2000+ Jōyō kanji?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%8Dy%C5%8D_kanji

Is it common to come across names using kanji outside that range?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinmeiy%C5%8D_kanji

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by Macha on Thursday January 11, 2024 @06:50AM (#38951008)
That's one part but another is names that use kyuujitai (pre-simplified kanji forms) or names that use unusual readings because if you're named after your father's (father's father's....) name then the pronunciation of your name might not have evolved the same way the reading of the kanji has in actual words. Also regional uses that get replaced by standardised uses in words but not names. Or someone just made it up generations ago and it caught on. Or your ancestor didn't know how to write and just picked a kanji they thought was right.

Even in English this happens, look at all the variations of Robert (Rob, Bob, Robb, Robbie, Bobbie, ...) or similar names.

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by Dalewyn on Thursday January 11, 2024 @08:10AM (#38951745)
>Even in English this happens, look at all the variations of Robert (Rob, Bob, Robb, Robbie, Bobbie, ...) or similar names.

That doesn't quite grasp the magnitude. We're talking on the level of writing "Charlie" and reading it as "Alexander". Why? Because yes, that's why.

Providing readings using furigana is the mechanical answer to a very human problem.

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by qingcharles on Thursday January 11, 2024 @10:45AM (#38953784)
How do everyday Japanese deal with the problem? Do they have the furigana on their business cards? (or the katakana reading)

I'm thinking.. I've only ever seen someone's name, will I make serious faux pas if I mispronounce it with the regular reading when I meet them?

(this is less pronounced in English because most of the time you can tell how to pronounce it by reading it. My last name suffers from the fact there is multiple possible pronunciations, so whenever I meet someone who has never heard my name they always stumble and look at me for help)

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by Macha on Thursday January 11, 2024 @12:28PM (#38955460)
In person, if they think you'll have to write their name: "My name is XYZ, that uses the kanji for A and B"

As for business cards, yes, if they have some non-obvious reading they will have kana or romaji there somewhere. (Usage of romaji on business cards is wider than you might expect, since it's seen as kind of the equivalent of a modern sans-serif logo for a business in some circles)

e.g.

Card with furigana: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...

Card with kana elsewhere: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...

Card with romaji: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by qingcharles on Thursday January 11, 2024 @01:02PM (#38956003)
Thank you so much!

On the first example -- what is the significance of the character which is a circle within a circle? I'm assuming it's some sort of graphic or punctuation, rather than a kanji...?

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by Macha on Thursday January 11, 2024 @01:54PM (#38956911)
It's just a graphical divider/bullet that the designer of this specific business card chose to use.

The heading of that corner is just the pronounication of "m-take design" written out in katakana. The first line under the heading talks about the type of products the person works on (direct mail, leaflets, pamphlets). The second line talks about their specialities, as in the industries they focus on (cosmetics, health food), and then the last mentions they'll also do logo design, homepage design etc. I guess they wanted to emphasize the second line.

You'll sometimes see kanji-sized single circles used in Japan to indicate omitted characters (and you might see them on business card _templates_ as a sort of lorem ipsum, but unlikely on actual business cards), but this double circle doesn't have any specific meaning as far as I know.

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by ytch on Wednesday January 10, 2024 @07:06PM (#38945468)
Thanks for your explanation. It reminds that the "onamae" name for Japanese people could contain hiragana or katakana. I almost forget it.
Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by sgarland on Thursday January 11, 2024 @07:56AM (#38951597)
I have an even deeper respect for people working on collations and character sets. Good LORD.
Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by pezezin on Wednesday January 10, 2024 @09:13PM (#38946567)
> With maybe the exception of arabic numerals, Japanese is nearly always written in full/monospace width. This is not unlike how English is nearly always written in half/proportional width.

The half-width/full-width distinction is a hold-over from the DOS era when all fonts where monospaced. It doesn't have a place nowadays and should have never be included in Unicode, just change the font or use a better text rendering algorithm.

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by SenHeng on Thursday January 11, 2024 @04:09AM (#38949671)
What makes you think they're not still using DOS?
Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by pezezin on Thursday January 11, 2024 @05:32PM (#38960355)
xD

Nah, it's probably some Japan-only ancient mainframe OS with Shit-JIS over EBCDIC.

Re:Your last name contains invalid characters (2010) by numpad0 on Thursday January 11, 2024 @05:20PM (#38960185)
full-widths has its places in vertical texts!