Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by mixmastamyk on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @04:03AM
(#38839627)
We had better technology from the eighties to aughts. The Clapper couldn’t be invented today without shoehorning a privacy destroying app and saas into it.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by gwd on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @06:17AM
(#38840445)
Here are the phases I went through as an American using "American":
1. Born in America; it's a big country, don't know much about the outside, just call it "America" and myself an "American".
2. Gain more knowledge of the outside world, realize the world and the Americas are even bigger. Start calling it "the States" or "the US" or things like that.
3. Gain even more experience of the outside world, realize that basically everyone in the world calls it "America" and calls us "Americans", and is confused by Americans who don't. Encounter forms written by foreign governments where "American" is the only option I can choose to describe my citizenship. Start calling it "America" again.
Kind of like the "Jedi IQ Bell Curve" thing.
FWIW I went through something similar with "Chinese", but then went out the other side:
1. Don't know anything about China, call the language that Chinese people speak "Chinese".
2. Start hearing about different "dialects" within China; start calling it "Mandarin".
3. Learn Mandarin, and start reading / talking with people from China. All the people I talk to in Mandarin say "Chinese" (中文) rather than "Mandarin" (汉语). So start just saying "Chinese" in both English and Mandarin.
4. Marry a native Cantonese speaker. Realize that the majority Mandarin-speaking Han population are engaging in cultural imperialism and suppression against minorities. Start saying "Mandarin" again in English, and 普通话 (putonghua / "common speech") in Mandarin / Cantonese.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by quesera on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @07:46AM
(#38841081)
In my experience, working with people from Canada to Argentina, everyone has said that "America" in their common vernacular means the US of A, and "Americans" accordingly.
But I wonder if this isn't just the US version of your Mandarin step 4. The US has dominated the global cultural conversation and the "other americans" have given up or never thought to challenge it.
...
Distantly related: I have spoken to Mexicans who are annoyed that Americans frequently (wrongly) think that only Canada and the US are "North America".
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by gwd on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @08:20AM
(#38841332)
> The US has dominated the global cultural conversation and the "other americans" have given up or never thought to challenge it.
To be equivalent, it would have to be the US saying that Canadians and Mexicans were "really" just "states" of America (as Beijing insists that Cantonese is "really" just a "dialect" of Chinese) and intentionally attempting to marginalize Canadian / Mexican distinctives.
I don't think I'd mind calling Mandarin "Chinese" if they didn't then insist that Cantonese is also "Chinese", use that to gaslight Cantonese speakers into thinking that their spoken language wasn't a real language, but "full of slang", and that their written language needed to be closer to Mandarin to be "correct Chinese".
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by edgyquant on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @08:47AM
(#38841536)
Do Americans frequently think that? That’s a surprise to me as everyone is taught in school that Mexico is part of North America and I’ve never met an American who thought otherwise
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by CoastalCoder on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @11:15AM
(#38843245)
> Do Americans frequently think that?
Not in my experience (lifelong American). I'm not aware of any project to make people think all of North and South America are, in fact, rightly part of the U.S.[1]
The only slightly similar thing I can recall is an impression I formed in the 1980s: the global reach of Hollywood's TV and films gave non-American's a very skewed view of life in America.
[1] other than America's Westward expansion, and as far south as the Rio Grande river. But IIUC those were militaristic expansions, not mere cultural imperialism.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by quesera on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @08:10AM
(#38853626)
> I'm not aware of any project to make people think all of North and South America are, in fact, rightly part of the U.S.[1]
Apologies, I might not have been clear.
The annoyance from Mexican friends is that Americans (apparently) often think that Canada and the US are "North America", and Mexico and southward are "South America". Or that "Central America" is a continent, and that Mexico is part of that continent.
Boiled down, the erroneous belief is that Canada and the US are part of "North America", and Mexico is part of something else.
I can't evaluate this on its merits. I have a good memory for geography, and zero confusion on this matter. Not all Americans share these traits (there is plenty of evidence for this!).
And I am not a Mexican who has ever fielded the situation with a confused American, but I take them at their word.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by quesera on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @09:42AM
(#38842070)
Apparently, frequently enough that the Mexicans I spoke to were aware of it and had thoughts on the matter. In general, they are very aware of the political currents in the US seeking to marginalize/disparage Mexico and Mexicans.
And, we are taught a lot of things in school that are not retained. Some 50% of American high school graduates can't find Florida on a map.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by gruez on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @08:25AM
(#38841373)
>Realize that the majority Mandarin-speaking Han population are engaging in cultural imperialism and suppression against minorities.
The CCP might be "engaging in cultural imperialism and suppression against minorities", but it's a stretch to claim "most" of the population is, when they have little political power and are just trying to survive.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by kkielhofner on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @10:10AM
(#38842425)
I think this boils down to "The United States of America" being the only country with America in the actual country name. Plus the overall influence of the USA, etc.
America, of course, can also refer to two entire continents but I don't know that I've ever met anyone who's primary identity refers to their continent.
It would be very odd to me, at least, for an Argentinian (as one example) to refer to themselves as American. Same for someone from Thailand referring to themselves as Asian or someone from Nigeria saying African unless (of course) they were attempting to communicate with someone with very limited geographic knowledge (mostly Americans).
I have many friends from Central and South America and prior to meeting them I would have dismissed something like the Narcissism of Small Differences[0].
Spend some time hanging out with Colombians, Venezuelans, Argentinians, Chileans, Uruguayans, Nicaraguans, etc in a tapestry like Miami and you learn quickly it is a very real thing - going back and forth about things like how to prepare and cook beans.
At first it's very interesting to experience them (mostly playfully) poking at each other over things that most of the world doesn't notice and can't understand. However, if you know them well and they've been in the US a while when you describe the Narcissism of Small Differences they usually say something like "That's so true! I never knew it had an actual name".
When they visit the small town I'm from in Wisconsin I have to tell them that to most of the locals they're "Mexican" and to try not to get offended even though there actually are significant differences between Mexico and South America countries.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by amalcon on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @10:41AM
(#38842719)
> America, of course, can also refer to two entire continents but I don't know that I've ever met anyone who's primary identity refers to their continent.
It can be hard to tell with Australians for obvious reasons, but I think some do hold such an identity there.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by amalcon on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @10:38AM
(#38842675)
It's interesting -- I was actually taught in Spanish class to call my nationality "estatounidense". Which I now understand is more polite in a few places, but will confuse everyone in other places. The most notable of the latter is, of course, Los Estados Unidos Mexicanos.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by aragonite on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @05:30AM
(#38852522)
1. The majority of Cantonese speakers belong to the Han ethnic group.
2. "Mandarin" is not synonymous with "汉语." Standard Mandarin (普通话/现代标准汉语/國語 in Taiwan) and Standard Cantonese (粤语/广东话) represent two main varieties of the Chinese language, or "汉语". [1]
3. It's unsurprising that the Mandarin speakers you spoke with refer to their language as "Chinese", considering they were addressing a foreigner and Standard Mandarin is the official language of China. However, in interactions between Mandarin and Cantonese speakers, it's common to ask, "Do you speak Cantonese/Mandarin?"
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by lallysingh on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @11:33AM
(#38843509)
North is a qualifier of American - denoting a subset of America. "American" is used by citizens of the USA only because the country's name doesn't give a better moniker. If the USA wasn't rich or powerful, "American" would mean the same as "Asian" or "European."
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @07:25PM
(#38849111)
> North is a qualifier of American - denoting a subset of America.
That would make sense, but language unfortunately isn't obligated to make sense.
In English, "America" unequivocally means the USA. "North America" unequivocally means the continent, and "the Americas" means both continents. This is only a problem because of clashing language and geography standards--in some languages there's only one continent and it's called "America," so it's easy to have misunderstandings between Spanish and English speakers using the same word to mean different things. But neither one is wrong. They're just speaking different languages.
(Neither is wrong about the definitions of the continents, either. Continents are arbitrary and always have been.)
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by pyrale on Friday January 05, 2024 @04:47AM
(#38877335)
> That would make sense, but language unfortunately isn't obligated to make sense.
I do agree with that, but for a language such as English, spoken all around the world, no one country or group of people gets to decide the meaning of words.
Insisting other people use your definition that you admitted doesn't make sense and making snarky comments like the article author did when they don't comply sounds pretty childish.
> In English, "America" unequivocally means the USA.
That is an extreme claim. As a contextual example, the gadget creators were apparently fine calling their gadget American.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by defrost on Friday January 05, 2024 @04:53AM
(#38877366)
> In English, "America" unequivocally means the USA.
Yeah, ... Nah.
Source, six decades of speaking commonwealth english around the globe.
Pretty much the only people who beleive that anything in English is unequivocal are those from central north american regions raised on prescriptive dictionaries and grammars.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by Turing_Machine on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @10:05AM
(#38854875)
Nonsense.
United States of America -> America
United States of Mexico -> Mexico
Republic of France -> France
Kingdom of Norway -> Norway
People's Republic of China -> China
Commonwealth of Australia -> Australia
Federated States of Micronesia -> Micronesia
Republic of South Africa -> South Africa
Republic of Korea -> Korea
Do you begin to see the trend here?
Note that the Federated States of Micronesia does not include all of Micronesia -- there are several other countries in that geographic region. Nor does the Republic of South Africa include all of South Africa. Nor does the Republic of Korea include all of Korea.
Besides, the USA was the first, and so far only, one to use "America" in its name, so it gets grandfather rights.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by LegitShady on Thursday January 04, 2024 @01:44AM
(#38863885)
>I wonder whether Canadians usually call themselves American
definitely don't. smart enough to keep it all straight in our heads - we know what continent we're on without constantly naming ourselves after it, and trying to claim the word would just leave to confusion.
"Oh you're American? Strange accent, where are you from?"
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by kleiba on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @04:51AM
(#38839928)
From Wikipedia:
An earworm or brainworm, also known as sticky music or stuck song syndrome, is a
catchy or memorable piece of music or saying that continuously occupies a
person's mind even after it is no longer being played or spoken about.
The word earworm is a calque from the German Ohrwurm. The earliest known English
usage is in Desmond Bagley's 1978 novel Flyaway, where the author points out the
German origin of his word.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by jamesmunns on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @04:53AM
(#38839937)
Technology Connections recently did a video[0] on the clapper, which went over quite a bit of the tech and history of the clapper, if you're looking for a video option.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by spicyjpeg on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @06:28AM
(#38840514)
For those interested in the technical details of the Clapper's clap detection, the patent the article links to [1] is definitely worth taking a look at. Not only does it feature detailed explanations and flowcharts of the algorithm, but page 13 even has a full source code listing of the firmware that runs on the Clapper's ST6210 microcontroller - which, in true "there's a 6502 inside every toy" fashion, has a very blatantly 6502-inspired architecture [2].
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by aimor on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @08:43AM
(#38841506)
The Clapper was my first voice assistant. I could shout "light on!", "light off!" and it would do its thing. Two minutes later, when that lost its appeal, I just quietly tapped on the box twice (I had the thing next to my bed to control my lamp).
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by ThinkingGuy on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @11:07AM
(#38843101)
The charm of the Clapper was still resonating in 1997, when "Saturday Night Live" did the parody sketch "New Microsoft Products" (Relevant bit starts at 1:22)
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by jauntywundrkind on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @12:29PM
(#38844236)
I bought one on eBay, thinking maybe I'd make a joke video on how to secure your voice assistant: with a clapper! Clap to turn on the Echo or whatever, wait 27s for it to boot, say 'Alexa, what is the weather, then clap to turn it off.
Re:The Cheesy Charm of the Clapper
by rzazueta on Tuesday January 02, 2024 @12:48PM
(#38844509)
No - the clapper will kill the power to it, so it won't be able to respond. You need to add a Google Nest device that will respond to your request for claps.
I wonder whether Canadians usually call themselves American, or whether this habit of USAns to monopolize the word influenced them into not using it.
1. Born in America; it's a big country, don't know much about the outside, just call it "America" and myself an "American".
2. Gain more knowledge of the outside world, realize the world and the Americas are even bigger. Start calling it "the States" or "the US" or things like that.
3. Gain even more experience of the outside world, realize that basically everyone in the world calls it "America" and calls us "Americans", and is confused by Americans who don't. Encounter forms written by foreign governments where "American" is the only option I can choose to describe my citizenship. Start calling it "America" again.
Kind of like the "Jedi IQ Bell Curve" thing.
FWIW I went through something similar with "Chinese", but then went out the other side:
1. Don't know anything about China, call the language that Chinese people speak "Chinese".
2. Start hearing about different "dialects" within China; start calling it "Mandarin".
3. Learn Mandarin, and start reading / talking with people from China. All the people I talk to in Mandarin say "Chinese" (中文) rather than "Mandarin" (汉语). So start just saying "Chinese" in both English and Mandarin.
4. Marry a native Cantonese speaker. Realize that the majority Mandarin-speaking Han population are engaging in cultural imperialism and suppression against minorities. Start saying "Mandarin" again in English, and 普通话 (putonghua / "common speech") in Mandarin / Cantonese.
But I wonder if this isn't just the US version of your Mandarin step 4. The US has dominated the global cultural conversation and the "other americans" have given up or never thought to challenge it.
...
Distantly related: I have spoken to Mexicans who are annoyed that Americans frequently (wrongly) think that only Canada and the US are "North America".
To be equivalent, it would have to be the US saying that Canadians and Mexicans were "really" just "states" of America (as Beijing insists that Cantonese is "really" just a "dialect" of Chinese) and intentionally attempting to marginalize Canadian / Mexican distinctives.
I don't think I'd mind calling Mandarin "Chinese" if they didn't then insist that Cantonese is also "Chinese", use that to gaslight Cantonese speakers into thinking that their spoken language wasn't a real language, but "full of slang", and that their written language needed to be closer to Mandarin to be "correct Chinese".
Not in my experience (lifelong American). I'm not aware of any project to make people think all of North and South America are, in fact, rightly part of the U.S.[1]
The only slightly similar thing I can recall is an impression I formed in the 1980s: the global reach of Hollywood's TV and films gave non-American's a very skewed view of life in America.
[1] other than America's Westward expansion, and as far south as the Rio Grande river. But IIUC those were militaristic expansions, not mere cultural imperialism.
Apologies, I might not have been clear.
The annoyance from Mexican friends is that Americans (apparently) often think that Canada and the US are "North America", and Mexico and southward are "South America". Or that "Central America" is a continent, and that Mexico is part of that continent.
Boiled down, the erroneous belief is that Canada and the US are part of "North America", and Mexico is part of something else.
I can't evaluate this on its merits. I have a good memory for geography, and zero confusion on this matter. Not all Americans share these traits (there is plenty of evidence for this!).
And I am not a Mexican who has ever fielded the situation with a confused American, but I take them at their word.
And, we are taught a lot of things in school that are not retained. Some 50% of American high school graduates can't find Florida on a map.
The CCP might be "engaging in cultural imperialism and suppression against minorities", but it's a stretch to claim "most" of the population is, when they have little political power and are just trying to survive.
America, of course, can also refer to two entire continents but I don't know that I've ever met anyone who's primary identity refers to their continent.
It would be very odd to me, at least, for an Argentinian (as one example) to refer to themselves as American. Same for someone from Thailand referring to themselves as Asian or someone from Nigeria saying African unless (of course) they were attempting to communicate with someone with very limited geographic knowledge (mostly Americans).
I have many friends from Central and South America and prior to meeting them I would have dismissed something like the Narcissism of Small Differences[0].
Spend some time hanging out with Colombians, Venezuelans, Argentinians, Chileans, Uruguayans, Nicaraguans, etc in a tapestry like Miami and you learn quickly it is a very real thing - going back and forth about things like how to prepare and cook beans.
At first it's very interesting to experience them (mostly playfully) poking at each other over things that most of the world doesn't notice and can't understand. However, if you know them well and they've been in the US a while when you describe the Narcissism of Small Differences they usually say something like "That's so true! I never knew it had an actual name".
When they visit the small town I'm from in Wisconsin I have to tell them that to most of the locals they're "Mexican" and to try not to get offended even though there actually are significant differences between Mexico and South America countries.
[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_difference...
It can be hard to tell with Australians for obvious reasons, but I think some do hold such an identity there.
2. "Mandarin" is not synonymous with "汉语." Standard Mandarin (普通话/现代标准汉语/國語 in Taiwan) and Standard Cantonese (粤语/广东话) represent two main varieties of the Chinese language, or "汉语". [1]
3. It's unsurprising that the Mandarin speakers you spoke with refer to their language as "Chinese", considering they were addressing a foreigner and Standard Mandarin is the official language of China. However, in interactions between Mandarin and Cantonese speakers, it's common to ask, "Do you speak Cantonese/Mandarin?"
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language
It's a little confusing if you're not used to it, but no one is monopolizing anything.
That would make sense, but language unfortunately isn't obligated to make sense.
In English, "America" unequivocally means the USA. "North America" unequivocally means the continent, and "the Americas" means both continents. This is only a problem because of clashing language and geography standards--in some languages there's only one continent and it's called "America," so it's easy to have misunderstandings between Spanish and English speakers using the same word to mean different things. But neither one is wrong. They're just speaking different languages.
(Neither is wrong about the definitions of the continents, either. Continents are arbitrary and always have been.)
I do agree with that, but for a language such as English, spoken all around the world, no one country or group of people gets to decide the meaning of words.
Insisting other people use your definition that you admitted doesn't make sense and making snarky comments like the article author did when they don't comply sounds pretty childish.
> In English, "America" unequivocally means the USA.
That is an extreme claim. As a contextual example, the gadget creators were apparently fine calling their gadget American.
Yeah, ... Nah.
Source, six decades of speaking commonwealth english around the globe.
Pretty much the only people who beleive that anything in English is unequivocal are those from central north american regions raised on prescriptive dictionaries and grammars.
Other english speakers use descriptive guides.
United States of America -> America
United States of Mexico -> Mexico
Republic of France -> France
Kingdom of Norway -> Norway
People's Republic of China -> China
Commonwealth of Australia -> Australia
Federated States of Micronesia -> Micronesia
Republic of South Africa -> South Africa
Republic of Korea -> Korea
Do you begin to see the trend here?
Note that the Federated States of Micronesia does not include all of Micronesia -- there are several other countries in that geographic region. Nor does the Republic of South Africa include all of South Africa. Nor does the Republic of Korea include all of Korea.
Besides, the USA was the first, and so far only, one to use "America" in its name, so it gets grandfather rights.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synecdoche
definitely don't. smart enough to keep it all straight in our heads - we know what continent we're on without constantly naming ourselves after it, and trying to claim the word would just leave to confusion.
"Oh you're American? Strange accent, where are you from?"
"Cape Shore!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=banAMiFK3ak
[0]: https://youtu.be/TBPVJtGBf8Y?si=XHbDwcO2LUm9elvk
Worked great until I put on anything with a lot of bass.
[1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US5493618A
[2] https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/st621...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt4SZydEbqo