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Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by kergonath on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @02:34PM (#38785626)
Pretty much the same as against fluorine in water in the States: it’s unnatural/a globalist conspiracy/killing our traditional way of life/a plot to subdue the people for <reasons>.

There is no scientifically sound reason against it.

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by dllthomas on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @03:04PM (#38786002)
You forgot "sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids"
Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by TheCleric on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @05:45PM (#38787777)
I deny them my essence.
Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by jeremyjh on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @06:23PM (#38788112)
We’re still not sure what that last bit means.
Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by LambdaComplex on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @06:26PM (#38788127)
That's why I use ed, the standard text editor
Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by kleton on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @03:59PM (#38786678)
In Deutschland, the iodized salt is nearly always iodized+fluoridated, whereas the only other option is plain salt with neither.
Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by adrianN on Thursday December 28, 2023 @01:58AM (#38790814)
https://shop.rewe.de/p/bad-reichenhaller-marken-jodsalz-500g...

Iodized salt with nothing else should be available in most supermarkets.

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by Cockbrand on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @02:47PM (#38785787)
Well, fluoridated water tastes really… well, special, and it almost feels like an indirect subsidy for the water filter industry. Iodine in salt is (to my taste) pretty neutral in comparison.

[EDIT: as pointed out in a child comment, the taste actually comes from chlorine, not fluoride.]

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by naremu on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @02:57PM (#38785900)
Isn't that taste chlorine from the sanitation process?

Either way I actually do assume water filter companies lobby to keep public water as subpar an option as possible, there's certainly no incentive not to.

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by Cockbrand on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @03:39PM (#38786462)
Yes, you're right, I mixed up fluoride and chlorine. And thus my previous comment doesn't make sense any more. My apologies!
Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by eichin on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @08:06PM (#38788808)
It doesn't bother me for drinking, but I've gotten in the habit of keeping an open (loosely covered would probably work too) pitcher of water in the fridge for making coffee, so it sits at least overnight before use, and dissipates some (having already served its purpose.)
Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by xp84 on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @06:37PM (#38788229)
Somehow I doubt “Big Filter” has the kind of money and clout they would need to pull that off. I’d accept being proven wrong, but I just doubt it in the absence of seeing proof.

Most of the taste problem that’s in our water “on purpose” is chlorine and it’s not added out of spite, it’s added for sanitary reasons.

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by Cockbrand on Friday December 29, 2023 @05:30AM (#38803562)
Apart from me mixing up chlorine and fluoride, my comment was a bit hyperbolic - of course, there's no Big Filter industrial complex :)

I haven't done a lot of research on how to clean water, but e.g. in Germany, tap water isn't chlorinated and thus has a much more neutral taste. And it's very much regulated to a high standard.

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by tourmalinetaco on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @02:47PM (#38785782)
There’s scientifically sound reasons for not wanting to drink fluorine, namely that the science is still out for whether it’s useful when used alongside regular topical applications. Not to mention excessive fluorine can stain or pit the teeth, and that it may even destroy nerve tissue.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/fluor...

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by kleton on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @04:03PM (#38786710)
Only the measurable decrease in IQ from municipal water fluoridation, which can seen when comparing Portland, where they do not fluoridate, to similar large cities in the PNW where they do.
Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by lostlogin on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @05:08PM (#38787408)
> the science is still out for whether it’s useful when used alongside regular topical applications.

That’s a meaningless comparison. The whole point is that people aren’t doing topical application.

A similar debate to this is the adding folate to flour or bread.

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by emmelaich on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @06:54PM (#38788348)
Don't most (all?) toothpastes contain fluoride?
Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by Taniwha on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @06:30PM (#38788171)
The LD50 of fluoride in drinking water is actually lower than the LD50 of water itself - drink enough fluoridated water to die from fluoride poisoning and you'll die from water poisoning first
Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by adrianN on Thursday December 28, 2023 @01:59AM (#38790823)
Things can have negative health effects without killing you, so the LD50 is not particularly helpful in this context.
Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by colechristensen on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @02:55PM (#38785875)
There is scientific reason against it, just not matching many of the conspiracy nuts’ rhetoric.

Most of Western Europe bans fluoridation. It can make your bones a little less elastic and a little more brittle, and there are a few other known or potential negative effects.

There are also just better ways to prevent cavities.

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by naremu on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @04:15PM (#38786830)
This seems like the sane, boring reality. People with modern dental routines probably don't benefit from the original purposes of fluoridation the same way people in the early 1900s only just getting electricity did.

But people only just getting electricity in the early 1900s easily benefited more than were harmed by such things. Poor dental health gets scary quick.

I guess the question becomes how low do you lower the bar for those who would willingly devoid themselves of sane things to include in their lives. How much freedom does one man have to harm his self, though he thinks as a self, costs to him are more often than not also costs incurred to society (and usually a society that'd prefer to not see people do self harmful things)

At least in the US though, it seems that popular opposition to fluoridation started with cold war era conservative conspiracies (precious bodily fluids). So, you know.

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by adrian_b on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @03:26PM (#38786284)
Unlike the case for iodine, there is no known reason for ingesting fluoride.

The only favorable effect of fluoride is achieved externally, by replacing the hydroxide ions in the tooth enamel, so tooth paste with fluoride or mouth wash with fluoride are good, but not drinking water with fluoride.

Ingesting fluoride is at best useless and at worst harmful, because too much ingested fluoride causes bone fragility, as it happens in some parts of the world where the drinking water contains naturally too much fluoride.

Moreover, while the amount of salt eaten daily is more or less constant, the amount of ingested water can vary a lot, so it is not possible to predict accurately how much fluoride will be ingested daily, to ensure a safe concentration in the drinking water.

No matter how you analyze it, adding fluoride to drinking water is just stupid and dangerous, like also the alleged justification for it, that most people are so dumb that they cannot be taught to wash their teeth.

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by lostlogin on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @04:20PM (#38786886)
> Unlike the case for iodine, there is no known reason for ingesting fluoride.

If we ignore the whole point of it (reducing dental cavities), what do you think it is added for?

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by kube-system on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @03:45PM (#38786535)
There is stronger evidence that public water fluoridation reduces tooth decay in children than there is evidence that it does any sort of harm. The only 'harm' linked to public water fluoridation is mild dental fluorosis, which is cosmetic.

There are natural sources of water that have fluoride levels high enough to cause harm, but these are at levels of fluoride much higher than what is in treated water.

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by palemoonale on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @02:56PM (#38785891)
This from a country where tapwater unfortunately typically tastes like crap?

(b/c it is chlorinated)

Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by pixl97 on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @03:10PM (#38786074)
Unless it is significantly over chlorinated tasting like crap isn't because of the chlorine, in general the causation will be reversed here. Places that use a lot of chlorine are typically trying to kill off things that both taste bad and will try to kill you.
Re:A National Evil – the curse of the goitre in Switzerland by emmelaich on Wednesday December 27, 2023 @06:52PM (#38788332)
Not to argue about dosing water, but fluoride has no value ingested and is poisonous at low doses. It's best to moderate your arguments against the anti-fluoride mob or you're too easily dismissed yourself.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/

> Public health approaches for global dental caries reduction that do not involve systemic ingestion of fluoride are urgently needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride_toxicity