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Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by wslh on Saturday December 16, 2023 @09:33AM (#38664461)
There should be an "Apollo 11" project for this.

I used to travel around the world and cannot believe that US couldn't solve or is blind about this problem. It shocks me to be in the "country of technology dreams" while I look at the state of many people there. Only think in tech-noir movies.

Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by PseudoThought on Saturday December 16, 2023 @12:15PM (#38665925)
One of the biggest problems is many homeless are too mentally ill to make good decisions for themselves like seeking treatment. That's probably obvious given their life situation, but the law doesn't allow anything to be done for people too sick to help themselves. We need compelled treatment and high-quality facilities which are not jails but where people are not free to leave until they have enough momentum in their treatment to improve their lives. This seems heavy-handed, and probably is, but most people would thank you eventually.
Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by EPWN3D on Saturday December 16, 2023 @02:14PM (#38666905)
That's changing in CA in 2024. The state legislature passed a law permitting involuntary holds on people who are unable to provide for their own physical safety or are suffering from substance abuse disorders.

What a lot of people don't understand is that the policy inadequacies that led to this point are mostly state-based, and in CA, cities simply couldn't do much about strung-out junkies on their streets once city councils started experimenting with decriminalizing drug use and deprioritizing drug enforcement. It's not like arresting them was a great solution, but it was the only thing available to city police forces, and it kept these people out of the public eye. Once that was removed as a tool, they were pretty much left with "Unless they're actively threatening someone, nothing we can really do."

That's changing, mercifully. Here in SF, a lefty-fringe position took over for a while, wherein homelessness with thought of as some sort of legitimate lifestyle, and society had to be forced to see it so we could all gaze upon the misery that tech money had wrought. After a while though, normal people just get sick of having to step over an unconscious body while taking their kids out for a walk.

While it's tempting to blame Reagan for the contemporary homeless problem, I'm not sure that's really right. Reagan was a giant piece of shit, but I don't find it plausible that his policy decisions in 1980 were the proximate cause of the homeless problem that started taking off in the late 2000s.

Personally I think a lot of the homeless problem comes down to two things that worked together to produce unintended consequences.

1. Opioids

2. Evolving attitudes toward drug use

Opioids are a scourge that created lots of new addicts. At the same time, society finally started realizing that criminalizing drug use was stupid. So the first thing to happen was the easiest: we stopped throwing people in prison. But it's not like these were people who had their lives together in the first place -- they had problems, and previously the prison system is how we dealt with those problems and kept them out of public view. And simultaneously, we were seeing an explosion of addicts thanks for opioids and pharma marketing. So lots more addicts plus lots less enforcement means lots more homelessness.

Now we're in a transitional phase where we're trying to figure out the best way to help these people and maintain their dignity. In the mean time, they live in tents on the street for everyone to see. CA is now codifying the obvious -- these people cannot care for themselves, and law-abiding citizens have a right to use public sidewalks without having to worry that a guy in a tent will think they're trespassing.

Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by DiscourseFan on Saturday December 16, 2023 @09:47AM (#38664592)
It's not really something the federal government can do much about. There is a vast difference between the availability of affordable housing between a state like, say, California, and New Jersey. The latter has far more programs, and far more available stock, and far more perfectly livable, undeveloped land where new housing, offices, stores, etc. could be built for the long term. California, on the other hand, has little to no affordable housing stock, and since it is so hard, already, with the available space to build new single family housing (and because, in the past, affordable housing programs in large apartment towers have turned out to be hotbeds of societal ills, so nobody wants to build high-density affordable housing) prices have skyrocketed and whenever a natural disaster, which is common in California but very uncommon in New Jersey, comes and destroys a bunch of houses, all the sudden a bunch of people become homeless.

All these issues are dealt with at the level of the municipality and the state, the federal government has significantly less power here. Now, I am no expert in affordable housing programs, if someone who has done more research on this topic would like to come and correct me, they are welcome. But this is my basic impression from what I've seen.

Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by atrettel on Saturday December 16, 2023 @10:11AM (#38664768)
> affordable housing programs in large apartment towers have turned out to be hotbeds of societal ills, so nobody wants to build high-density affordable housing

The problem isn't with high-density affordable housing but with building housing that segregates people based on income level. High-density development is a good thing generally and makes a neighborhood more varied and vibrant in my view.

The problem comes from concentrating poverty into a single location. Instead, the United States should spread it out evenly with affordable housing throughout our cities and neighborhoods. The development patterns in the United States end up with two extremes: single family houses or large apartment blocks, with nothing in between (the missing middle problem). There is a lot of implicit segregation by income there, even at the single family housing level, since different housing developments tend to build roughly the same size house repeatedly in any given development. Rather than building neighborhoods where everyone has roughly the same income level, as the United States does now, it would be better to build neighborhoods that can accept people of all income levels. That way, the problems associated with poverty and similar issues are diluted throughout a city and never concentrated.

Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by 20after4 on Saturday December 16, 2023 @10:54AM (#38665118)
I agree that concentrating poverty makes things worse, however, that is highly unlikely to change. The development patterns you mention are the explicit result of planned development with the express purpose of segregation. The US is the way it is because it's how the majority of people prefer it to be. Nobody wants to see the ugly underside of poverty. Most people prefer to wall it off. Out of site out of mind.
Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by addicted on Saturday December 16, 2023 @10:02AM (#38664698)
I’d normally agree, except in America it’s very difficult for local governments to handle homelessness because they seem inherently incapable of learning from each other and building a corpus of best practices that they can share and adopt.

American local governments go out of their way to do everything as if they’re the only ones facing an issue, and I think solving that tendency in American governance is likely way harder than solving anything in the homelessness space.

Even outside of that there are very large downsides for local governments to handle such issues because any successful system would likely attract more people from other parts of the country which would put an even greater financial burden on local taxpayers. Considering cities are cutting services like libraries, etc. it’s a huge disincentive for any local government to enact an actual effective solution.

Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by k__ on Saturday December 16, 2023 @09:50AM (#38664613)
Can't the just build housing on federal land?
Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by Podgajski on Saturday December 16, 2023 @10:05AM (#38664718)
There’s tons of empty malls that the government can buy right now and at least they could let people living in their cars park there. I mean they won’t even do that. They won’t even ban making it illegal to live in your car in this country.
Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by HDThoreaun on Saturday December 16, 2023 @02:15PM (#38666908)
Most federal land isnt where people want to live.
Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by JKCalhoun on Saturday December 16, 2023 @09:37AM (#38664499)
Japan too has a homeless problem they seem to ignore. I am not sure if it has gotten worse since I was last in Tokyo some 7 or 8 years ago.
Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by wslh on Saturday December 16, 2023 @09:39AM (#38664516)
Homelessness is not unique to US for sure, but US is the dominant global power and that makes it more difficult to digest.
Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by oh_sigh on Saturday December 16, 2023 @09:38AM (#38664512)
Has there been any society in the history of civilization that solved homelessness?
Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by nonrandomstring on Saturday December 16, 2023 @09:51AM (#38664615)
Certainly, by definition. A "civilisation" is a body achieving an advanced stage of development and organisation. With shelter and food being at the base of the needs hierarchy, satisfying those would be a least requirement for "advanced".
Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by Podgajski on Saturday December 16, 2023 @09:48AM (#38664598)
Yes, there has. It’s not that hard, they just need houses. Which means they need a population that cares. So this is not a physical matter, it’s a spiritual matter. It’s a matter of the heart.

https://oecdecoscope.blog/2021/12/13/finlands-zero-homeless-...

Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by oh_sigh on Saturday December 16, 2023 @09:53AM (#38664634)
Nope:

> The number of homeless people in Finland has continuously decreased over the past three decades from over 16 000 in 1989 to around 4 000, or 0.08% of the population

Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by Podgajski on Saturday December 16, 2023 @10:05AM (#38664723)
You’re perfect is the enemy of all the good they’re doing.
Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by oh_sigh on Saturday December 16, 2023 @08:56PM (#38669686)
No, I'm just saying that you can't say that you solved homelessness when there are 4000 people homeless(in a country of 5m).
Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by wslh on Saturday December 16, 2023 @09:40AM (#38664527)
Has there been any society in the history of civilization that sends people to walk in the moon?
Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by oh_sigh on Saturday December 16, 2023 @08:57PM (#38669688)
Yes - America. Maybe that is an easier problem to solve since we did that, and we still have homeless people.

Actually, homelessness is easy to solve, but requires distasteful actions by the government, like involuntary commitment.

Re:Homelessness reaches highest reported level in the U.S. i... by hotpotamus on Saturday December 16, 2023 @09:07PM (#38669738)
I’ve been involuntarily committed - my insurance covered a lot of it, but I’m guessing homeless peoples’ health insurance isn’t so good.