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Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by legitster on Monday December 11, 2023 @06:31PM (#38606959)
While this is true, there were a lot of programs that existed before M110, and part of the bill of goods that was sold with M110 was that it was going to make it easier for people to access existing resources without fear of law enforcement.

And again, literally written into M110 is the idea that treatment is supposed to be cheaper than incarceration. Perhaps it's due to really bad red tape, but the treatment programs are not looking terribly cheap or effective.

Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by jdminhbg on Monday December 11, 2023 @06:59PM (#38607216)
> Perhaps it's due to really bad red tape

I don't think it's red tape as such, but rather that Portland suffers from a problem SF also has, which is that government social services are mostly run via the NGO-Industrial Complex. Money is shoveled into a patchwork of local governments, and then shoveled out into a patchwork of local non-profits, and there's almost no accountability for turning $X into Y results, like you might have with a transportation department or a school district.

Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by legitster on Monday December 11, 2023 @07:19PM (#38607398)
Man, even Friends of Trees! Literally planting trees for free got cancelled by Portland because of back-room nonsense:

https://www.opb.org/article/2022/07/11/portland-oregon-tree-...

Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by jimbob45 on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @12:37AM (#38609914)
Cairo wouldn’t comment on the complaints about her management style. Responding on her behalf, Parks and Recreation spokesperson Cherelle Jackson said the bureau wouldn’t comment on “rumors about a member of our team.” “Unfortunately, too many women in male-dominated industries like forestry face this behavior,” Jackson wrote in an email to OPB. “As a Bureau, we will uphold our values for equality and respect for women in the workplace. If you have evidence that is not based on hearsay, please feel free to share, and we may respond accordingly.”

That was really depressing to read. She nuked the program because of her ego and then let her black spokesperson blame it on race and gender instead of her own lies and deliberate mismanagement.

Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by mlrtime on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @10:15AM (#38613216)
Most of this thread and politics in general are based around failures being the result of somebody else. There is 0 accountability or self responsibility.

Likewise, when people/groups fail today we want them fired or cancelled. This promotes the "blame someone else" as a self preservation tactic.

Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by uoaei on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @01:34AM (#38610278)
Exactly right. Hard not to see it as a shadowy system of back-scratches and kickbacks between mayors' offices and the folks who run the NGOs. It's remarkable how hard it is to hold NGOs accountable when they're using public funds.
Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by hutzlibu on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @07:05AM (#38611132)
I got a glimpse into how various state support systems work in germany and the basic idea is, private companies get good money to take care of people - but they get nothing for actually helping them get out of the helpless state - they rather have incentive to keep them there, as then they still get money for them.
Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by toyg on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @09:03AM (#38612185)
Y'all don't want socialized medicine, this is what you get...
Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by margalabargala on Monday December 11, 2023 @07:44PM (#38607630)
> Perhaps it's due to really bad red tape, but the treatment programs are not looking terribly cheap or effective.

The treatment programs implemented so far have been incredibly cheap, in the sense that we simply haven't spent any money on them.

M110 has been more expensive than expected, because by not spending money on treatment programs, we caused an assortment of other issues.

M110's effect on society is confounded by its coexistence with a statewide housing crisis that is pushing people into homelessness, and from there it's easy to fall into drug use.

Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by Consultant32452 on Monday December 11, 2023 @06:54PM (#38607163)
There's two problems with these programs.

The first problem is that the people we're really talking about, the ones living/defecating/etc on the street do not want help.

The second problem is that in order to want to get better, an addict has to hit their personal rock bottom. Programs that keep people floating above their personal rock bottom are like family members enabling addicts. It ultimately doesn't help them.

It's VERY difficult to create social programs that help people want to not be ill, while simultaneously not letting them fall to their own rock bottom.

And then consider the position from the legislature of creating incentives for government programs/NGOs which align with the desired outcomes and it becomes expoentially harder.

Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by InSteady on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @12:35AM (#38609905)
Plenty of people on the streets want all kinds of help. They don't want shit programs with a million hoops and strings attached, nor do they want gross dilapidated shelters also with hoops and strings plus predators prowling around looking to steal their shit (or worse) while they sleep.

Also, while the whole rock bottom trope probably holds some truth for many people, when you make every story all about it you kind of lose the plot. If you try hard enough, you can look at just about anyone's life who has recovered from addiction and create a narrative based on an upward trend after the "worst" moment or period of their addiction. If they had two periods that were basically exactly as bad, you dig around until you find some trivial reason to label the second period as worse, and thus the "real bottom." If someone had their worst period of addiction many years before they actually got to a place where they could maintain sobriety long term it was just a long journey for them. Etc.

Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by hifreq on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @01:06AM (#38610107)
You are absolutely right. Plenty of people on the street want money and drugs for free with no strings attached. It's inhumane to deprive them of that.
Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by lazyasciiart on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @12:40AM (#38609928)
The 0th problem is that you’re actually completely wrong.
Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by uoaei on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @01:36AM (#38610286)
Did you learn all these fantastic insights watching reality shows on TLC?
Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by Consultant32452 on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @07:48AM (#38611474)
TLC told me to keep doing more of what is failing in Portland and San Francisco.
Re:To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use by jrflowers on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @12:42AM (#38609944)
> While this is true, there were a lot of programs that existed before M110

You make a good point. When we look at a program that hasn’t been implemented we must judge all other unrelated programs that were implemented to some degree or another at the same time.

People might want to “see how it works out after implementation” while ignoring the necessity of “going back to the status quo that led to coming up the ideas on the first place”