News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by Swizec on Saturday December 09, 2023 @01:46PM (#38584510)
> This only confirms that the fragmentation of the region is driven more from the creation of 'national myths' than on genetic differences

Always has been. You think there was such a thing as “French” a thousand years ago? Are people from Munich really that different than Vienna? Do folks in Geneva really differ deeply from people in Lyon?

Europe is very small. From Kyev, capital of Ukraine, to Ljubljana, capital of Slovenia, it’s about the same distance as San Francisco to Los Angeles. Yet it crosses 3 countries.

Kings and governments come and go, but the people stay. My great grandma, for example, lived in 4 different countries without leaving her village.

Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by pvg on Saturday December 09, 2023 @02:18PM (#38584926)
Kyev, capital of Ukraine, to Ljubljana, capital of Slovenia, it’s about the same distance as San Francisco to Los Angeles.

One is a bit over 500 km and the other is about 1300 km. It's not meaningfully 'about the same distance'. It's an enourmous distance to hit only three European countries, though, you can do this in much less time/distance driving around nearby Trieste or Bratislava.

Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by Swizec on Saturday December 09, 2023 @02:31PM (#38585064)
Huh you’re right. Maybe I was remembering border to border air distance. Was looking this up a few years ago when friends were asking how far Ukraine was from my family.

Here’s a more fun context instead: after college I went on a roadtrip and covered 13 countries in about 4000 miles.

Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by pvg on Saturday December 09, 2023 @02:38PM (#38585138)
You started some sort of Europeshrinking conspiracy here, check out the sibling comment that's off by a similar factor but for area.
Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by pxeboot on Saturday December 09, 2023 @01:52PM (#38584566)
> Europe is very small.

For another US reference point: the entire European Union is about the same size as Alaska.

Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by pvg on Saturday December 09, 2023 @02:33PM (#38585079)
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=area+of+alaska+vs+area+...

EU is a lot bigger than Alaska and there's a lot of Europe it doesn't cover.

Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by mk89 on Sunday December 10, 2023 @03:42PM (#38594848)
Europe is not just the "European Union". I know many don't like Russia at the moment, but its western part is Europe. Same for Ukraine, also not part of the European Union, but it's part of Europe (the continent).

In the context of European "genetics" keeping Russia and Ukraine out of Europe is basically non-sense considering the Slavs kind of come from there :)

Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by pvg on Monday December 11, 2023 @02:33AM (#38598433)
You might be replying to the wrong comment.
Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by fhars on Saturday December 09, 2023 @04:53PM (#38586455)
In Mercator projection?
Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by eigenket on Sunday December 10, 2023 @05:08AM (#38590545)
For a more accurate reference point, the EU's area is about 4.2 million km and the contiguous USA (so without Alaska etc) is about 8 million, so the EU is about half the area of the contiguous US.
Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by mk89 on Sunday December 10, 2023 @03:49PM (#38594906)
Europe is 10 million km - why to skip some countries just because they are not part of a "political" union?

This article is about analysing the genetics of people living in Europe, so the entire continent must be considered and "historically" Europe extends until west Russia.

If you consider only the European Union, you kind of exclude the British, who share a lot with the rest of the continent.

Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by eigenket on Thursday December 14, 2023 @03:29AM (#38639103)
To match the guy I was replying to, and because the USA is primarily a political, not geographical construct so it makes sense to compare it to another political construct in the EU.
Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by hammock on Saturday December 09, 2023 @02:29PM (#38585050)
Doesn’t have to be large groups to be different groups. That seems like a fallacious argument.

Empirically/anecdotally I bet quite a few people could with 90%+ accuracy pick a (third-generation) Iberian vs Frank vs Polack vs Scandi out of a lineup just by physical features

Alternatively take a reasonably deep look at American (North or South) indigenous tribal societies- the empirical history is thinner there but similar conclusions

Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by Wytwwww on Saturday December 09, 2023 @06:18PM (#38587216)
> 90%+ accuracy pick a (third-generation) Iberian vs Frank vs Polack vs Scandi

If they have the same haircut, tan and clothes? Highly doubtful...

Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by rayiner on Saturday December 09, 2023 @06:34PM (#38587332)
The average Swedish or Danish man is more than three inches taller than the average Spanish man.
Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by ffgjgf1 on Sunday December 10, 2023 @04:42AM (#38590400)
That doesn’t mean much and wouldn’t be particularly useful when picking a limited number of people from a lineup (certainly not at at 90% accuracy)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation

Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by hammock on Sunday December 10, 2023 @10:30AM (#38592167)
Someone posted a photo of eight Italian soccer players all wearing the same uniform and said “there is no meaningful difference between northern and southern Italians, try to tell them apart.”

I guessed, and got 7 of 8 correct. (The one I missed was Sardinian)

Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by SenAnder on Saturday December 09, 2023 @05:15PM (#38586636)
Europe may be small, yet there are measurable genetic differences between its peoples: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2735096/

Looking at a larger, but still relatively closely connected region, magnifies those differences further: https://site.nevgen.org/2020/05/05/autosomal-pca-charts-of-e...

Re:Balkan genomes trace the rise/fall of Roman Empire's fron... by astrange on Sunday December 10, 2023 @04:29AM (#38590339)
The UK is fairly small but has very different accents in different regions. Genetic history and accents both come from how far people travel, as far as I know, so as long as people don't go far they can remain separate.