"Then just don't kiss publicly". Sure, hiding one's sexuality isn't that hard, especially for a short period of time. But that's the whole problem: they shouldn't have to hide it in the first place.

Home people might know you, but in home country you are against only bigoted individuals, not the entire state.

Objectively, will a python conference attended by an African be more dangerous than that person's everyday life? No. But that's not what it's about. What this is about is PSF's having no tolerance for places that are breaking human rights. And if you want to be part of that community and enjoy its perks, you have to adhere to cultural standards that PSF perceives are essential.

In Rome do as the Romans do. Cultural norms differ by countries and should be respected.

Also this kind of indignation is very selective, I've never read a software fundation complaining about it being unsafe to travel as a christian in Marocco (where owing a bible is forbidden by law) for example.

That's not a great comparison. You can choose if you bring a Bible with you or not - this seems like a law about Bibles, not about being a Christian. You can't choose to not be gay/trans for some time - even if you hide it, the relevant records may be public and easy to find if some law enforcement.

Only to a degree where those cultural norms are acceptable.

This is something that even tourists are often aware of, because in Tangier the Anglican parish[1] is a popular tourist attraction. The Agadir Roman Catholic parish is attended by also some of the loads of German/French/Italian pensioners who spend winters there.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_Morocco

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Andrew's_Church%2C_Tangier

As the joke says: "they promised to fill the pool as soon as we learn to swim."

What does that have to do with Python? You can chose to respect the laws in the country you are in, or not.

PSF has some moral views and they believe in some standards regardless of given country's law. Why are you so fixated on that?

However, what is the impact here?

Basically the volunteers for a Python conference needed to write an open letter as the conference didn't happen.

Like, if the PSF don't want conferences in places where same-sex relationships are prohibited, then they should just make that a policy. Personally, I would disagree with that policy as I don't see how Python relates to said policies, but it would be fine.

What's not fine is relatively poor volunteers being forced to guarantee major expenses for a conference because the PSF couldn't make a decision.

I thought the reason PSF exists is to promote Python, not to have political views.

> The mission of the Python Software Foundation is to promote, protect, and advance the Python programming language, and to support and facilitate the growth of a diverse and international community of Python programmers.

Are anti-LGBT Africans not diverse enough?

The venue is safe for the international Python community, or it is not.

1. It is not the government doing it 2. It is not actually speech

You can't say you are free to express yourself in one sentence and forbid expression in the next. Either we all have to hide or we can all be free to express ourselves as we see fit.

If you cannot see it, you yourself are not free.

That's about government retaliation. You don't have a right to be free of consequences for anything you say. What you're looking for is a "safe space".

You may as well accept that your actions have consequences since it is reality. Usually this is a lesson taught to young children while they are still learning to talk.

Since you mention little children, I would be remiss not to point out that kids do pick up on that particular, shall we say, inconsistency rather quick usually to the embarrassment of the adults, who are, after all, in a polite company.

By the way, I reject the consequences framing. Everything has a consequence. I breathe. Oxygen enters my bloodstream. The only question tends to be whether a busybody has too much free time on their hands to undermine basic foundations of this country. And there seem to be so many of those lately.

Related. What government thinks freedom of speech is and is not based on various rulings:

[1]https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-re...

To permit students to print articles in a school newspaper over the objections of the school administration. Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U.S. 260 (1988).

I do not want to presume too much, but I am assuming you are trying to make some sort of subtle point. If so, do not hesitate to do it and just play your cards. It is not like I can report you for anti-semitism or something.

People not wanting to hear what you have to say, broadcast what you say or host what you say has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

FWIW, this was my last response. I am removing myself from this conversation.

Incidents of violence are the product of opportunity and generally perpetrated through in-group policing. Westerners and other African travellers are less exposed, so in the case of an LGBT developer from the US travelling to Zanzibar (which is also a very special case relative to the rest of Tanzania) I doubt they'd be in any real danger unless they were publicly displaying unambiguous attraction to the same-sex. I know an openly gay couple living in Kinshasa, which is a much more dangerous environment.

This is a very cheap shot from PSF and a classic case of perfect defeating good.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/nov/22/coldplay-conce...

Are all conference participants also lgbt? Nobody forces lgbt individuals to travel there.

people everywhere should be able to hold their own conferences.

the question is, should the PSF fund them? that should be answerable with a clear yes or no in a timely manner, and not like it happened.

holding a conference named pycon requires permission from the PSF trademark workgroup. that permission has obviously been given. giving such a permission but then denying funding would be contradictory, but still be better than delaying decisions.

further consider that the people organizing the conference are not the ones making the exclusions. those are beyond their control. supporting the organizers might actually be a good thing. at least it is worth a consideration.

i'd like to assume that once i have permission to organize a pycon, then funding is a mere question of how much, and whether the expenses are appropriate, not whether it should be funded at all.

The answer seems to be yes for at least some number of travelers. I have traveled the Muslim world and sub-Saharan Africa extensively and I have met plenty of fellow travelers who are gay, whether individuals or even gay couples. The couples simply don’t show affection in public, but heterosexual couples shouldn’t either. Even sharing a room as two men or two women is no issue, because the locals will assume you are friends unless you explicitly, deliberately, tell them otherwise.

And twice when I got the contact info of local Europeans living in the region who were known for extending hospitality to any travelers coming through, I arrived to find that it was a gay couple who had been there for decades. I must say, this whole thread is full of uninformed stereotypes, and posters would benefit from firsthand experience of the world.

LBTQ and HR activists often protest international conferences and events held in countries with lacking human rights. To be frank, I don't think that is because we are uninformed.

Of course the risk as a caucasian traveller to get life imprisonment in Tanzania is very low, but life in prison is a risk I would avoid even if the risk is low. Since you have traveled so extensively what would your advice be to my gay friend who had to flee for his life from a neighbouring African country. Is he safe to visit this python conference?