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Re:Firefox on the Brink? by jjoonathan on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @09:38AM (#38531314)
Google finally beat my hands with a stick firmly enough to get me off Firefox.

It was youtube. Not the ads -- I pay for premium -- but the fact that on FF they added an artificial 5s page load delay on firefox plus a bug has lingered for months where it always loads the last video, so you have to load every video twice. 12s/video is too much delay.

Ah well, it was good while it lasted.

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by rumdz on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @09:44AM (#38531415)
I have not experienced this. Could it be because I only browse the web with uBlock Origin enabled?
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by southwesterly on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:18AM (#38531929)
Yes. It is exactly that.
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by jjoonathan on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:32AM (#38532155)
Hmm. Maybe I should try uBlock. I usually don't like adblockers -- both on principle, because I believe in paying for what I consume, and because they tend to subtly break a website and cause hours of headaches at least once a year -- but I don't like feeding the beast either. I'll look into this.
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by klabb3 on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:48AM (#38532390)
Adblockers are highly configurable, you can simply disable them selectively in cases where you want to “support” those that sell your data to the highest bidder, if that’s your jam..

Your former comment indicates that you care about page load times, in which case an adblocker will typically reduce both UI yank and certainly network usage, in case you’re constrained.

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by jjoonathan on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @12:10PM (#38533700)
> you can simply disable them selectively

Last time an ad-blocker caused a multi-hour debugging debacle, that turned out to not be the case. It was preventing me from logging into my bank even when it was supposedly disabled.

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by btreecat on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @09:43AM (#38531395)
12s of your time is the cost of compromised morals? That seems p cheap and unfortunately indicative.
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by ragnese on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:50AM (#38532420)
Even besides the compromised morals, just the fact that they know and understand that Google is intentionally doing nefarious shit to make us switch to Chrome and they just went along with it.

I must just be a naturally defiant person, but in that situation, I would go far, FAR, out of my way to make sure I never let them "win" with that kind of bullshit tactic.

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by taylodl on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @09:55AM (#38531594)
Compromised morals? WTF is the CEO of the Mozilla Foundation doing to earn $7M per year in salary? What about the Mozilla Foundation forcing out Brandon Eich because of a personal donation he made to a cause they didn't like?

Morals my ass!

I stopped using Firefox the day they kicked Brandon out and here's the kicker: I don't agree with the cause Brandon supported but I agree his employment shouldn't be affected by donations he made to support a ballot issue.

So yeah, the Mozilla Foundation can go straight to hell with that shit.

Good riddance!

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by sgift on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:17AM (#38531918)
Brendan Eich was not forced out. He made the donation, he couldn't stand the heat of defending it, he left.

Also, personal donations can make you unfit for some positions. Significant parts of the community felt his donation was not in line with the values they wanted to see represented. And since you didn't agree with them you decided to leave.

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by croes on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:15AM (#38531884)
So you shoot yourself in the foot to teach Mozilla a lesson?

We all lose if it's only Chrome.

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by taylodl on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:29AM (#38532115)
Last I looked Safari isn't Chrome.

Also, anybody can use the Gecko web rendering engine, yet project after project after project has picked the WebKit or Blink rendering engines.

And no, I haven't "shot myself in the foot" - when I replaced Firefox I found two great browsers: Brave and Vivaldi.

The better question is why you continue to support a compromised organization?

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by toyg on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @12:26PM (#38533957)
Gecko being a mess for embedded use pre-dates the Eich affair and Baker's payday.

As for Mozilla being compromised - maybe, but it's still less compromised than advertisement companies, crypto companies, tax evaders, and their likes.

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by glenstein on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @12:20PM (#38533851)
Just to make sure I'm following along, we were talking about how youtube includes a delay of several seconds if it detects a certain ad blocking browser extension. Firefox has that browser extension, and therefore Mozilla is a "compromised organization."
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by taylodl on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @04:22PM (#38537072)
You violated YouTube's T's & C's and you're complaining about Google putting you in timeout for doing so. You steal from YouTube's content creators yet present Mozilla as the good guys. Have I summed that up accurately?
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by glenstein on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @01:47PM (#38547936)
None of that was my question, so, no.
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by croes on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @03:48PM (#38536703)
Safari is a niche and is missing features.

And Brave and Vivaldi are based on Chromium, so they help Google that Chromium sets the standards for the web.

You already shot yourself, just didn't recognize yet.

Why do you support a crooked company like Google?

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by taylodl on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @04:32PM (#38537198)
> Why do you support a crooked company like Google?

Get back with me when the Mozilla Foundation has done a fraction of what Google has done in furthering our knowledge of computer science. Other companies making significant contributions to our knowledge of computer science are AT&T, IBM, and Microsoft. Would you prefer them to Google?

Also, the Firefox against the world meme is juvenile.

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by croes on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @03:23AM (#38541618)
It's not about Firefox against the world, it's we against Google and at the moment Firefox is all we have.

>Get back with me when the Mozilla Foundation has done a fraction of what Google has done in furthering our knowledge of computer science.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by taylodl on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @09:11AM (#38544094)
Like I said, get back with me when the Mozilla Foundation has done a fraction of what Google has done in furthering our knowledge of computer science.

I would also consider which Big Tech company you're fighting. Last I looked, Google wasn't cited as the cause of a significant uptick in US teenagers committing suicide and being plagued with mental health issues. I could go on, but in the realm of Bad Actors in the land of Big Tech, Google is actually one of the least problematic entities.

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by theandrewbailey on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:12AM (#38531849)
What really moved me away from Firefox was using Brave search. I had been using DuckDuckGo since the Snowden leaks. When DuckDuckGo announced they would derank results if they thought it was Russian propaganda or disinformation, I moved to Brave search. A week or so later, I decided that Mozilla was too woke for my liking, and started using Brave's browser, too.
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by worksonmine on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @12:06PM (#38533640)
You seem to value integrity, are you aware that Brave browser replaced affiliate URLs with their own? So if you wanted to support someone and use their affiliate link they took the liberty to replace that. I wouldn't touch that spyware if I got paid.
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by Timshel on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:26AM (#38532062)
Don't know, the pro LGBT stance of Mozilla/ Mozilla Foundation was not new in 2014 I believe.

So not having leadership with opposing view does not seem strange to me; donation was done privately but it end-up being public enough. There's enough hypocrisy and pink-washing ...

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by taylodl on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:36AM (#38532203)
Is the Mozilla Foundation a software organization or a LGBTQ+ advocacy organization?

If it's the former then what business do they have caring about Brandon Eich's personal donation to support a ballot initiative?

If it's the latter then it's a conflict of interest and Brandon Eich should be asked to leave.

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by Timshel on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:53AM (#38532471)
At the moment they appear to want to be both.

Might at times be at the detriment of Firefox but it's not like there is any alternative imo. So I don´t mind, it's not like if they remove their LGBT manifesto they suddenly will become relevant again and people will start to care about privacy.

Might be that LGBT people care more about privacy and that this manifesto will help them stay relevant.

And it's not like 2% is not a lot of people, TOR browser is certainly even less and it does not change the fact that I believe it's an highly important piece of software.

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by mrgalaxy on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @11:47AM (#38533322)
I use Chrome for Google's sites (Gmail, Youtube, etc) and Firefox for everything else. On Chrome you can install Youtube as an "app". That makes it easy for me to keep YT up and running while using Firefox for general browsing. Definitely recommend trying this approach out!
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by Timshel on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @09:49AM (#38531515)
Sad when I had the 5s issue on FF I switched to Freetube.

No surprise Google is doing those tactics if people react like you :( ...

Re:Firefox on the Brink? by jjoonathan on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:39AM (#38532260)
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll give freetube a spin!
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by ape4 on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:21AM (#38531986)
Wasn't this 5s delay for Firefox only debunked
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by jjoonathan on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:34AM (#38532179)
I lived it. Someone saying they "debunked" it doesn't change my experience.
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by mroche on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @09:46AM (#38531462)
Does this occur for you with an ad blocker active (like uBlock Origin)?
Re:Firefox on the Brink? by ncts on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @10:51AM (#38532423)
FYI there is Invidious.