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Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by nosefurhairdo on Sunday December 03, 2023 @01:40PM (#38509542)
What's your solution then? Almost 75% of Jews live in Israel, formerly a British Territory, formerly Ottoman Empire, formerly Mamluks, Mongols, battlefield for Christians and Muslims in the crusades, Arab Muslim rule, Byzantine Christian rule, the Roman Republic, etc.

During much of this unstable history Jews occupied this land and for some of it were killed or enslaved en masse.

There never was a coherent Palestinian state, it was completely understandable for Jews to want their own state here after one of the more successful attempts at genocide orchestrated by Hitler and the third Reich, and many if not most Jews would gladly live in peace alongside Palestinians, while they elect Hamas, who according to their own charter will not stop until Israel is destroyed:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

To be clear, it is an absolute tragedy what innocent Palestinians are suffering as a result of the terrorists in charge are doing. Those monsters livestreamed their war crimes and hold innocent Palestinians hostage as human shields. They teach their children to hate Jews and shoot AK-47s. They divert international aid money from their poor to build tunnels.

If Hamas stops there is peace. If Israel stops there is no Israel.

Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by 0max on Sunday December 03, 2023 @03:11PM (#38510313)
Bibi had all the power to stop Hamas, but a secular Gaza isn't in his political interests.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...

[dead]
Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by Protostome on Monday December 04, 2023 @03:18AM (#38514902)
I contest the use of the word "native" in that regard.

People have immigrated constantly throughout history from place to place. Many palestinians bare the names of their 19th-18th century origins. Last names such as "Al-Masri" (The Egyptian), "Halabi" (Of the city of Haleb in Syria) are very common, to name a few.

The tragedy here, is the continued refusal of the palestinian leadership during the 1940s to accept any partition of the land, which led to a catastrophic result on their part. Had they accepted the 1947 partition plan, Israel and Palestine could have been a free, peaceful countries.

Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by stormdennis on Monday December 04, 2023 @04:06AM (#38515177)
Aah, the Palestinians never existed argument, the successor to the long discredited land without people for a people with land one and just as derisory. The actual tragedy here is that Western Powers facilitated settler colonisation to create a Jewish State which by definition required the expulsion of the people already living there. Further, the Zionists never had any intention of sticking to the share of Palestine "gifted" to them by the the UN. They had prepared detailed plans for the ethnic cleansing of all of Palestine. The only reason they didn't take the West Bank in 1948 was that there, they were up against the British-trained Arab Legion.
Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by Protostome on Monday December 04, 2023 @04:22AM (#38515265)
Would love to see evidence for such a "plan" for ethnic cleansing.

It would be a rather absurd plan to cleanse a territory in which you are not only a minority, but also surrounded by Arab countries which were pretty adamant about refusing to accept the jewish state.

In practice, what had happened is that the jews accepted the partition plan. The reason the arabs didn't accept it, is because they simply wanted it all to themselves, not because they feared ethnic cleansing.

Using the term "settler" or "Colonializm" to characterize jewish immigration to Israel is racist and antisemite. As I mentioned, Arabs immigrated en-masse to the land of Israel throughout the 18th and 19th centuries, yet you refer to them as natives.

Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by stormdennis on Monday December 04, 2023 @04:33AM (#38515334)
The antisemite slur now, is it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet
Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by Protostome on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:45AM (#38516109)
Did you actually read the article? " ... The issue is subject to much controversy, with some historians asserting that it was defensive, while other historians assert that the plan aimed at the expulsion, sometimes called an ethnic cleansing, on the grounds that this was an integral part of a planned strategy."

"Other historians assert... " is hardly an evidence. More like an opinion. In truth, Israel today has more than 2 million Arab citizens.

Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by stormdennis on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:40AM (#38516540)
I've read books on it. The 2 million Arabs are the descendants of the 20% of Palestinians who were internally rather than externally displaced, ie the ethnic cleansing was only 80% effective.
Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by licebmi__at__ on Sunday December 03, 2023 @06:27PM (#38511873)
Now do the likud charter.
Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by nosefurhairdo on Sunday December 03, 2023 @09:39PM (#38513131)
The moral equivalence argument is not compelling. Israel is home to most of the world's Jewish population, and is a country which upholds Western values.

"[Israel] will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations."

Compared to Hamas:

"The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

'The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.'"

Do you really wish for Islamic terrorists to succeed in their stated goal of Jewish genocide? If you were a woman or ethnic/religious minority, which country in the Middle East would be more hospitable than Israel?

Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by licebmi__at__ on Monday December 04, 2023 @02:39AM (#38514629)
I wish for genocide and occupation not to happen, no matter if I agree with their values or if who writes stuff more eloquently.
Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by dun44 on Monday December 04, 2023 @04:23AM (#38515270)
>Israel [..] is a country which upholds Western values.

Such as genocide? Like, actually murdering 15 thousand civilians, https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-ham...? How many did the “terrorists” kill?

Re:US warship and multiple commercial ships attacked in the ... by grandinteg3 on Sunday December 03, 2023 @09:28PM (#38513074)
Someone was pre-trained with the Lukid charter!