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Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by steveBK123 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:28AM (#38473901)
Agreed that what is left unsaid in a lot of performance conversations is the person-role match. Someone isn't a high/low performer globally, just at that time in that role.

Wall St firms I have worked at typically try to find different roles for people before marking them as at risk of a layoff. Not sure FAANG behaves the same, but from all these PIP discussions it seems not.

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by closeparen on Thursday November 30, 2023 @11:03AM (#38475126)
Leadership was asked why not find new roles for people getting laid off due to project cancellations at a time when we were still hiring like crazy in the immediate run-up and aftermath. The response was “we need to move fast.”

They encouraged those laid off to apply for open roles. But of course it read to employees as a monumental “fuck you.”

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by Arelius on Thursday November 30, 2023 @11:58AM (#38475841)
Well, but to mention that once, at least at amazon, you enter the pip processs. You are no longer able to move teams. And if you get removed. Not able to apply to return.
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by j45 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @01:13PM (#38476871)
It's surprising companies don't seem interested in understanding their employees well enough to know that the cost of re-hiring and re-training vs trying to find a better fit in the org is not a good idea.

Some industries coach the employee into a different role, or help them exit more openly.

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by giantg2 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @03:45PM (#38478801)
I've even seen articles about how Amazon chews through so many people that they're having trouble finding "virgin" hires. Everyone in their pool is already fed up with them or were PIP'd.
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by pixl97 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @07:28PM (#38481283)
"We need more HB1's.... we already burned the local population"
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by j45 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @10:09PM (#38482613)
Interesting.

Explains the cyclical visits from Amazon recruiters on LinkedIn.

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by aitchnyu on Friday December 01, 2023 @12:05AM (#38483359)
IIRC isnt this about warehouse workers?
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by giantg2 on Friday December 01, 2023 @06:30AM (#38485602)
Those were some of the roles, but they were having roubles with others too.
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by rescbr on Thursday November 30, 2023 @03:15PM (#38478480)
> And if you get removed. Not able to apply to return.

Having been past the PIP/Pivot process, certainly I don't want to return.

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by scarface_74 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @07:12PM (#38481141)
Why the hell would I ever want to return? That’s like going back to an ex thinking it “will be different this time”
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by jacobyoder on Thursday November 30, 2023 @11:00AM (#38475086)
I left a company years ago because I didn't feel I was a good fit for the team/project - skills/goals/etc. But wasn't allowed to leave because it would hurt the image of the team to be seen to have people leaving it for other teams. But... apparently, leaving the company altogether doesn't affect the image (and yes... I've left the team, and people internally knew why, so... how does it really save face?)
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by Terr_ on Thursday November 30, 2023 @11:52AM (#38475769)
Perhaps if the employee leaves the company entirely, all parts of the company get a chance to pretend the deficiency was in the employee. [0]

Like some weird inverse of the "You can't fire me, I quit!" trope.

[0] P.S.: Even if the employee left for a more prestigious role in another company, the social-circles in the old company aren't forced to acknowledge that the same way as if it were an internal move: HR will just say "they left to pursue other opportunities", and that permits the assumption that that the worker--their incompetence discovered--has fallen into ignominious chronic unemployment.

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by SpaceNoodled on Thursday November 30, 2023 @12:23PM (#38476151)
"You can't quit, I fire you!"
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by giantg2 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @12:37PM (#38476356)
Good, gets the unemployment and makes any legal case a little easier.
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by scarface_74 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @07:16PM (#38481172)
Yes that whopping $387/week on average. That’ll show them

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/personal-finance/best-and-wor...

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by giantg2 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @08:53PM (#38481998)
Better than 0
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by scarface_74 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:26PM (#38482270)
Not much better. In my state it is $275 max a week
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by giantg2 on Friday December 01, 2023 @06:30AM (#38485610)
Not much better is still better.
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by pierat on Friday December 01, 2023 @09:35AM (#38487119)
If I was able to forego the scam of 'unemployment insurance's, and put that cash in savings myself, I could do a hell of a lot better.

In reality, our unemployment insurance is a scam of how pathetic it pays. Again, it's another example of how the middle class gets squeezed both ends, and little care expended on the actual problems.

I can see why republicans get elected - they lower taxes on my bracket so I keep more money in hand. But that's because the very policies that should help everyone don't help everyone cause of shitty means testing.

Now , when I got fired from shitty food service job, unemployment was close to in parity with what I made, so it was useful then. (I just want it useful for everyone, not just low paid.)

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by away271828 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @10:35AM (#38474760)
I've absoluttely been in a position where the ground moved under me. I went from doing (based on evaluations, RSUs, etc.) from doing a very good job to bouncing around a bunch of managers and groups in roles that I wasn't really suited for and didn't have much real interest in. The only saving grace was that I was pretty close to semi-retiring anyway.
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by giantg2 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @10:53AM (#38474998)
I've been bouncing for about 5 years. Have about another 20 to go. Not sure how I'm going to handle that.
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by rad_gruchalski on Thursday November 30, 2023 @03:28PM (#38478623)
Consider a different job, and pick up some responsibilities.
Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by giantg2 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @03:48PM (#38478841)
What are you talking about?

I can't change jobs now due to home life responsibilities and having specialized in dead tech.

I have picked up responsibilities. In the past I've filled the role of a senior dev for a year and a tech lead for another. I volunteered to be an ASC. I volunteered for all sorts of other responsibilities.

Perhaps the world doesn't work in the way that you think. It's not possible for everyone to successfully job hop, especially with a disability and home responsibilities. Just picking up responsibilities doesn't mean you'll get rewarded.

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by rad_gruchalski on Thursday November 30, 2023 @05:31PM (#38480122)
> Just picking up responsibilities doesn't mean you'll get rewarded.

I'm sorry, I did not mean to attack, or otherwise offend you. I was attempting to say that one can look for an opportunity to work in an environment where one can feel appreciated. I'd employ a person with such experience as long as they'd know some basics. What's TLS, how does it work, roughly. What's DNS. TCP vs UDP. At least understanding of what problems are solved (or created, if you are in that camp) by Kubernetes. Docker basics. Read open source code.

Those are interesting subjects. I'm sure there is a ton of hypothetical past problems one could attempt to modernize and have fun while doing so.

It's just a free opinion of someone on the internet!

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by scarface_74 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @07:26PM (#38481266)
> I can't change jobs now due …having specialized in dead tech.

Then don’t do that?

I’ve been working professionally for 27 years and have been aggressive about keeping pace with technology. I saw what happened first hand when I didn’t between around 2002-2008 and I said it would never happen again.

For reference: I didn’t know “cloud” from a hole in the wall at 44 years old and I got my first and hopefully last job in BigTech at 46 working at AWS in the ProServe department (where I got PIPed see my top level comment)

It is completely irresponsible for anyone in tech especially with a family to not always keep themselves employable and depend on the whims of thier current employer to support their families addiction to food, clothing and shelter.

And how does a disability preclude you from getting a remote job?

And if you “can’t job hop”, would you not look for another job if you got laid off or fired or would you just give up and be on the street - homeless and hungry?

> Just picking up responsibilities doesn't mean you'll get rewarded.

I’m always rewarded for picking up additional responsibilities - if not by the current company by the next. It’s what allows me to aggressively job hop with a family and not be stuck with dead technologies on my resume.

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by giantg2 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:01PM (#38482074)
I have responsibilities and problems at home that greatly limit my non-work hour freedom. My disability is not a physical one, but a neurodivergent one, so remote would only hurt me more. I would look for another job if I lost this one, but it would probably pay less - again, no real time to upskill. Sure, I've gotten new certs and other BS over the years and started working with new tech. That hasn't been helpful. I've worked roles above my official position and not been rewarded. In fact, I haven't seen any of my hard work or extra responsibilities pay off after my first promotion about 3 years in. I don't expect another promotion for the rest of my career either. That's just the way it is for me.

Not everyone's life is as easy as you make your's out to be.

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by scarface_74 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @09:04PM (#38482104)
Again if you lost your job you would do what it took to get another one wouldn’t you? So what’s the difference between changing jobs when you do have a choice and waiting until you don’t have a choice?

If you don’t make time now to upskill, what do you think is going to happen if/when you don’t have a choice but to look for a job and be stuck with in your words “dead tech”.

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by giantg2 on Friday December 01, 2023 @06:36AM (#38485648)
"So what’s the difference between changing jobs when you do have a choice and waiting until you don’t have a choice?"

The difference is that if I lost this job I would then have time during the day to look for jobs or study when I would have been working.

I don't really care what will happen. My area is shitty for tech work, my wife won't move, and I'm ill suited to remote work. I'm just coasting now. There's no point in upskilling until I would know what skills the other company would want because there are so many different things they could wanting the tech changes so fast.

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by scarface_74 on Friday December 01, 2023 @09:45AM (#38487237)
That’s not how it works. Given a choice between hiring someone who learned on the side with no real world experience and hiring someone with real world experience - the latter wins.

That’s why you do volunteer for opportunities where you can up skill on the job and while you are still employed you find another job where you can get in based on what you know and then transition

Re:I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was see... by giantg2 on Friday December 01, 2023 @03:12PM (#38491656)
"Given a choice between hiring someone who learned on the side with no real world experience and hiring someone with real world experience - the latter wins."

Lol so I'm in a catch 22 and your precious advice does not apply.

"That’s why you do volunteer for opportunities where you can up skill on the job"

That's not how my org works.