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Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by altacc on Monday November 20, 2023 @03:49AM (#38344957)
The mega rich have been building bunkers and preparing for the downfall of humanity for a long time now. Look around and you'll notice that greed wins out over everything else. We're surrounded by companies doing nothing or only small token gestures to protect humanity or the world we live in and instead focusing on getting rich, because getting rich is exactly why people become shareholders. Don't rely on those guys to save the world, it'll be the boring committees that are more likely to do that.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cherryteastain on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:42AM (#38345510)
Why would even the people employed in those bunkers listen to some billionaire after the world collapses? At that point there's no one to enforce your ownership of the mega bunker, unlike the government from before. And all the paper money is worthless of course.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by imgabe on Monday November 20, 2023 @05:11AM (#38345813)
Very true. Triangle of Sadness was a good movie kind of about this.

When the shit hits the fan the guy in charge of the bunker is going to be the one who knows how to clean off the fan and get the air filtration system running again.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cyanydeez on Monday November 20, 2023 @06:57AM (#38346764)
.. or the guy willing to violence. shorter movie but equally probable.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by imgabe on Monday November 20, 2023 @07:06AM (#38346828)
Violence can only get you so far. Sure, maybe the guy who knows how to get food will get you some food if you threaten to kill him. But if he refuses, and you do kill him, then what? You still don't know how to get food for yourself.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cyanydeez on Monday November 20, 2023 @07:13AM (#38346895)
people in the violence frame aren't doing the long term thing. but we absolutely know they exist and in no scenario can you be assured they're not in that position.

it's gambling, pure and simple.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by imgabe on Monday November 20, 2023 @07:27AM (#38347013)
Yeah, people are smart though. Like if you’re good at getting food you find the person who’s best at violence and promise to get them plenty of food if they protect you from the other violent people. Maybe you divide up the work among the good at food getting people and the good at violence people and pretty soon you got yourself a little society going.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cyanydeez on Monday November 20, 2023 @08:41AM (#38347873)
people capable of violence don't need to be smart, because they're capable of violence.

the point is, you cant rely on a scenario where society breaks down, that survivors will act more rational then than they do now.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by imgabe on Monday November 20, 2023 @03:53AM (#38345007)
Yeah that makes sense. Work your whole life building a company worth billions of dollars so that you can burn down the world and live in a bunker eating canned beans until the roving bands of marauders flush you out and burn you alive. I'm sure that was their greedy plan to enjoy eating canned beans in peace!
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by vkaku on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:24AM (#38345326)
More like they'll try to maintain their palaces and force more serfs to the bunkers. Not familiar[1]?

Now imagine the rich talking about climate change, arguing to bring policies to tax the poor, and then flying off to vacations in private planes[2]. Same energy.

1 - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/20/richest-...

2 - https://www.skynews.com.au/insights-and-analysis/prince-will...

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by phatfish on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:20AM (#38345293)
They assume they wont be around for when their legacy completely uproots society, be the king now, let everyone else deal with the consequences later. The hedge is to rebuild the world in their image from the New Zealand command center, should it all happen too soon.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by discreteevent on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:32AM (#38345420)
This happens to intelligent competitive people all the time. They don't want everyone to be worse off but what they really don't want - is to lose. Especially to that guy who is going to do it anyway.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cyanydeez on Monday November 20, 2023 @06:40AM (#38346617)
in Steve jobs case, hlel didn't want to admit he's a moron who knew nothing about fruit, nutrition and cancer

the problem with eugenics isn't that we can't control population land genetic expression, it's that genetic expression is a fractal landscape that's not predictable from human stated goals.

the ethics of doing things "because you meant well" is well established as, not enough.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by FrozenSynapse on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:02AM (#38345121)
you will be eating canned beans, they will ride high as they do now
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by imgabe on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:07AM (#38345160)
You realize money isn’t magic, right? If the world is a post-apocalyptic wasteland billions of dollars doesn’t mean anything. You aren’t getting any wagyu beef down in your bunker.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by phatfish on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:33AM (#38345423)
You think they wouldn't give up wagyu beef and the idea of the US dollar for a shot at rebuilding society with a massive head start over the 99.9% percent of the population that don't have a bolt hole?
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by imgabe on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:41AM (#38345505)
They already have massive influence over society with the added benefit of not having to rebuild 10,000 years of human progress so no I don’t think that makes any sense at all. That is cartoon supervillain nonsense. No real person thinks that way.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cyanydeez on Monday November 20, 2023 @06:45AM (#38346663)
Elon musk is publically think in a way that no one with 10000 years of history would think.

unfortunately, people are flawed.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cycomanic on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:47AM (#38345586)
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by easyThrowaway on Monday November 20, 2023 @05:00AM (#38345703)
It won't be a "Mad Max"-style of apocalypse.

More like "Republic of Weimar" kind of apocalypse, this time with the rich opportunists flying to New Zealand instead of Casablanca or the Austrian Alps.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cyanydeez on Monday November 20, 2023 @06:44AM (#38346646)
and they won't have any better at it.

the people wholl be in power then will still resemble the basics: violence, means of production and more violence.

which they know and are basically planning dystopian police states.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by easyThrowaway on Monday November 20, 2023 @07:04AM (#38346814)
Because given the historical precedents, they know they will probably die peacefully in their beds before they have to pay any real consequences for their actions. Sure, a few dictators at the very end of their reign had to pay some consequences, but their cohorts? Soviet Russia, South America Banana republics, the aristocratic european families that enabled fascism and nazism...

Probably a few CEOs great grand-childs will probably have to write how they're very very sad that their long forgotten relatives have destroyed most of the planet, and how they're just so lucky to be among the few that are still living a luxurious life somewhere in the Solomon Islands.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by imgabe on Monday November 20, 2023 @07:32AM (#38347059)
Hey if it’s a Weimar style apocalypse we’ll all be billionaires.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by wheelerof4te on Monday November 20, 2023 @05:07AM (#38345776)
"Underground bunkers" are actually underground cities. There are a bunch of them all over the world.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by fourthark on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:24PM (#38358694)
What.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by TapWaterBandit on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:03AM (#38345127)
Lmao yea the conspiracy theorising behind a lot of this stuff is so poorly thought through. Make billions, live a life of luxury, then end life living in underground bunker drinking your recycled urine. Bill Gates plan all along!
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by easyThrowaway on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:46AM (#38345571)
More realistically, "live in extremely gated luxury island apartments somewhere in New Zealand, Bahrain or Abu Dabhi while the rest of the world burns".
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by jacquesm on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:13AM (#38345212)
Incidentally, Altman is a 'prepper'.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by nopromisessir on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:34AM (#38345442)
It's just insurance.

The rest of us just can't afford most of the insurance that we probably should have.

Insurance is for scenarios that are very unlikely to happen. Means nothing. If I was worth 300 mil I'd have insurance in case I accidently let an extra heavy toilet seat smash the boys downstairs.

Throw the money at radical weener rejuvination startups. Never know... Not like you have much to lose after that unlikely event.

I'd get insurance for all kinds of things.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by jacquesm on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:50AM (#38345617)
Insurance amortizes the risks that large numbers of people are exposed to by pooling a little bit of their resources. This is something else though I'm not quite able to put my finger on why I think it is duplicitous.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by nopromisessir on Monday November 20, 2023 @05:03AM (#38345734)
Fair point in semantic terms.

Maybe it's risk mitigation without cost sharing to achieve the same economies of scale that insurance creates.

Its a rich man's way of removing risks that we are all exposed to via spending money on things that most couldn't seriously consider due to the likelihood of said risks.

I don't think it's duplicitous. I do resent that I can't afford it. I can't hate on them though. I hate the game, not the players. Some of these guy would prob let folks stay in their bunker. They just can't build a big enough bunker. Also most folks are gross to live with. I'd insist on some basic rules.

I think we innately are suspicious when advantaged folks are planing how they would handle the deaths of the majority of the rest of us. Sorta just... Makes one feel... Less.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by jacquesm on Monday November 20, 2023 @05:11AM (#38345814)
It's duplicitous because it is the likes of Thiel that are messing with the stability of our society in the first place.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by nopromisessir on Monday November 20, 2023 @05:23AM (#38345925)
Hmm... True story.

Finger placed on duplicity.

Arguably only some of his time is spent on that kind of instability promoting activity. Most law enforcement agencies agree... Palantir good.

Most reasonable people agree... Funding your own senators and donating tons to Trump and friends... Bad.

Bad Thiel! Stick to wierd seasteading in your spare time if you want to get wierd. No 0 regulation AI floating compute unit seasteading. Only stable seasteading.

All kidding aside, you make a good point. Some of these guys should be a bit more responsible. They don't care what we think though. We're wierd non ceo hamsters who failed to make enough for the New Zealand bunker.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cyanydeez on Monday November 20, 2023 @06:47AM (#38346673)
unfortunately, you could also just be a Buddhist and reject material notions.

see, what exactly is insurance at the billionaires level.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by nopromisessir on Monday November 20, 2023 @07:25AM (#38346992)
Uhhh...

Buddhists die in the Armageddon same as others.

The bunkers are in new Zealand which is an island and less likely to fall into chaos with the rest of the world in event of ww3 and/or moderate nuclear events.

I'm sure the bunkers are nice. Material notions got little to do with it. The bunker isn't filled with Ferraris. They are filled with food, a few copies of the internet and probably wierd sperms banks or who knows what for repopulating the earth with Altman's and Theils.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cyanydeez on Monday November 20, 2023 @12:29PM (#38351090)
the existential fear of billionaires appears to be that they won't have things rather than life.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by imgabe on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:23AM (#38345324)
So is Thiel, famously, but I don’t think that proves they want the world to be destroyed. It’s an interesting kind of problem to think about and you have to spend money on something. It’s the same kind of instinct that makes kids want to build forts.

But surely, being a rich and powerful billionaire in a functioning civilization is more desirable than having the nicest bunker in the wasteland. Even if we assume their motives are 100% selfish destroying the world is not the best outcome for them.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by jacquesm on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:51AM (#38345627)
They do happen to have some effect on the outcome for the rest of us. It's a bit like the captain of a boat that has already taken the first seat in the lifeboat while directing the ship towards the iceberg and saying 'don't worry, we can't possibly sink'.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by thworp on Monday November 20, 2023 @05:37AM (#38346018)
If you are suggesting that billionaires like Thiel don't have any skin in the game (of human civilization continuing in a somewhat stable way) you're nuts.

If we hit the iceberg they will lose everything. Even if they're able to fly to their NZ hideout, it will already be robbed and occupied. The people that built and stocked their bunker will have formed a gang and confiscated all of his supplies. This is what happens in anarchy.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cyanydeez on Monday November 20, 2023 @06:55AM (#38346752)
you're assuming they're not determinists.

people like Steve jobs are the best example of flawed logic. in the face of a completely different set of heuristic and logical information, he assumed he was just as capable, and chose fruit smoothies over more efficacious and proven medication.

they absolutely, like jobs, are playing a game they think they fully understand and absolutely are likely to chose medicine akin to jobs

just watch Elon and everything he's choosing to do.

these people are all normal but society has given the a deadly amount of leverage without any specific training.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by Solvency on Monday November 20, 2023 @10:33AM (#38349514)
Really what we're observing with these people is the survivorship bias of humans with astounding levels of cognitive dissonance — which nearly all humans have. Except they have the rare combination of wealth and luck on their side...until it runs out.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by dang on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @12:45AM (#38359844)
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37336350). It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cycomanic on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:52AM (#38345634)
Nobody is arguing that they have the intent to cause the apocalypse, but it's more that their actions are certainly making society less stable and they don't see any issue with it. In fact some qre quite openly advocating for such societies.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cyanydeez on Monday November 20, 2023 @06:47AM (#38346680)
self fulfilling prophecies are real.
Re:Sam Altman, Greg Brockman and others to join Microsoft by cyanydeez on Monday November 20, 2023 @06:37AM (#38346579)
the rabbit hole is infinite and everyone is capable of chasing into it without regard for anyone else.