News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by zobzu on Monday April 09, 2012 @06:55PM (#3819717)
No. Just No.

* Use a non-standard ssh port <= not security. plus i bet you're on 2222.

* Fail2ban: useless for key auth, you don't remote brute keys like that

* 2 factor: that is ok

If your comp can log directly without any authentication that is terrible practice. Your comp will eventually get compromised, stolen, etc and then its game over. The passphrase is no silver bullet but it helps a lot.

2 factor or tiny cryptokeys are best.

Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by nl on Monday April 09, 2012 @08:25PM (#3820026)
No. Just No.

With a reaction to that I expected overwhelming technical objections to everything the parent said. Based on the actual contents of your objections, I think you would have been better starting it Yes! Additionally...

Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by lmm on Tuesday April 10, 2012 @08:53AM (#3821915)
All the great-grandparent's points are true, but irrelevant. There are plenty of ways to improve SSH security. None of them make having passwordless keys anything other than utterly brain-damagedly stupid.
Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by nowarninglabel on Monday April 09, 2012 @09:17PM (#3820201)
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2236081

Think of it as security through irregularity instead of security through obscurity. You are not making your box secure by changing the ssh port, but you are decreasing the number of automated attempts that will hit your ssh port, which could, in theory, reduce your security risk.

Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by arbitrage on Tuesday April 10, 2012 @09:10AM (#3821969)
but the original objection was regarding using passwordless keys. again, the main concern here isn't about automated attacks, it's about targeted attacks. someone got your key, it doesn't matter that you're running on a non-standard port. they'll figure that out, if they're targeting your machine specifically.
Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by jimmyjim on Monday April 09, 2012 @07:07PM (#3819755)
I definitely agree with much of what you've pointed out.

> * Use a non-standard ssh port <= not security. plus i bet you're on 2222.

Right, marginally better than using port 22, but it's still something (better than non-action, if you will). I do hope one takes the vigilance to set a port number sufficiently high up, and sufficiently random looking. I recall something about nmap, that it scans only up to 1023 by default or something.

> * Fail2ban: useless for key auth, you don't remote brute keys like that

Still set it up -- for http and other services.

> If your comp can log directly without any authentication that is terrible practice. Your comp will eventually get compromised, stolen, etc and then its game over. The passphrase is no silver bullet but it helps a lot.

I agree... I emphasized seamless logging in because that seems to be a big point that Mosh is apparently selling itself on. I do have stronger authentication methods set up for the production machine. :)

Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by cd34 on Monday April 09, 2012 @07:55PM (#3819929)
> I do hope one takes the vigilance to set a port number sufficiently high up, and sufficiently random looking

Hopefully not over port 1023. If a user gets on the system and crashes your ssh daemon through OOM killer or one of many other methods, that non-root user can then restart its own daemon and listen to that port that you put >1023 'for security reasons'.

Accidentally answering yes when it says a new key was detected is all it takes to get keylogged.

Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by Dylan16807 on Monday April 09, 2012 @10:01PM (#3820312)
I don't see how you could answer yes to that prompt without realizing it was the 'key has changed' prompt. Especially when half the ssh clients I've seen abort entirely when the key changes.
Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by slug on Monday April 09, 2012 @08:47PM (#3820097)
The issue of using ports above 1024 is that unless you redirect it to <1024 through the kernel firewall, if the ssh daemon crashes, a local user can run a daemon and compromise your keys/passwords. If you trust all your users, it should be fine though, but still...
Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by tedunangst on Tuesday April 10, 2012 @12:38AM (#3820706)
That's why the server has a private key, too, to identify itself to the user.
Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by dspillett on Tuesday April 10, 2012 @06:36AM (#3821546)
You can't rely on that if you have other users connecting though. Too many people ignore even the starkest of warning messages. While that problem will not go away, keeping SSH on a port below 1024 is slightly safer and has no disadvantage other than it isn't as catchy as 2222 (and if you are using 2222, be aware that automated attacks often check that as well as 22 because of how common an alternative it is, so you might as well just use 22 and be done with it).
Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by Locke1689 on Monday April 09, 2012 @07:28PM (#3819829)
Best not rely on any security once attackers have access to your physical system. Someone could even take your computer, install a keylogger, and get it back to you.

If you have a Mac and secure your SSH keys with Keychain someone could take it, crack it open, freeze your memory, and dump it.

Two factor is definitely the best you could do on this front but who sets up two factor with SSH?

Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by giddas on Tuesday April 10, 2012 @01:03PM (#3823185)
it's simple with yubikeys
Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by dfc on Monday April 09, 2012 @07:56PM (#3819931)
Tiny cryptokeys?
Re:Mosh: SSH for 2012 by zobzu on Tuesday April 10, 2012 @05:54PM (#3824660)