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Re:Othello Is Solved by sonofhans on Saturday November 04, 2023 @01:42PM (#38143344)
That is super cool. I’ve played Mankala for years and would love to hear more.

It’s instructive to see old Africans playing Mankala. They play very fast. It can become more like poker, where deceit is a part of the game. If you spam down your stones fast enough sometimes you can skip a bowl, or drop an extra stone, in order to gain advantage.

I’m not facile enough to play this way, and I play with family and so don’t cheat. It’s a very different thing, though. Like the difference between British ladies playing slow Mahjong over tea, versus people playing for money in a gambling room in China.

Re:Othello Is Solved by jonahx on Saturday November 04, 2023 @03:29PM (#38144309)
> They play very fast. It can become more like poker, where deceit is a part of the game. If you spam down your stones fast enough sometimes you can skip a bowl, or drop an extra stone, in order to gain advantage.

What you describe is just a talent at cheating, and I assume against the rules of the game. In poker, bluffing is an explicit part of the game allowed by the rules. I wouldn't even call it "deceit" in that context. At the very least, these are highly distinct categories of deceit.

Re:Othello Is Solved by weatherlight on Saturday November 04, 2023 @03:48PM (#38144482)
Sometimes there's an implicit its only cheating if you get caught.
Re:Othello Is Solved by buzzy_hacker on Saturday November 04, 2023 @04:30PM (#38144826)
Yeah, in monopoly you don’t have to pay rent if the property owner doesn’t notice.
Re:Othello Is Solved by jhbadger on Saturday November 04, 2023 @04:37PM (#38144886)
And in Scrabble it's fine to use a nonsense word if nobody challenges it.
Re:Othello Is Solved by _justinfunk on Saturday November 04, 2023 @06:15PM (#38145738)
And in American Football it's fine to deflate the ball if no one measures it.
Re:Othello Is Solved by jhbadger on Sunday November 05, 2023 @11:40AM (#38152719)
Not the same. Because there is a penalty to challenging a word that turns out to be a real obscure word found in the dictionary (the official Scrabble dictionary if you playing seriously), it is a legitimate strategy (not cheating) to use obscure words early on, be proven correct when challenged, and then use fake words that opponents are wary of challenging.
Re:Othello Is Solved by pests on Saturday November 04, 2023 @04:43PM (#38144930)
This is not implicit though.

The rules state that property owners can ask for the rent until the next player rolls the dice.

Re:Othello Is Solved by earthboundkid on Saturday November 04, 2023 @05:09PM (#38145138)
In Bullshit, I always felt that if you could trick them into taking the hand or not noticing you added an extra card, it was all part of the game.
Re:Othello Is Solved by david422 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @08:15PM (#38146623)
3 queens ... and slide a 4th card sideways underneath.
Re:Othello Is Solved by earthboundkid on Sunday November 05, 2023 @09:39PM (#38158151)
Yep.
Re:Othello Is Solved by webkike on Saturday November 04, 2023 @05:45PM (#38145484)
IMO that's still not cheating
Re:Othello Is Solved by nemo44x on Saturday November 04, 2023 @07:06PM (#38146150)
If you’re not cheating you’re not trying.
Re:Othello Is Solved by gmd63 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @07:29PM (#38146322)
If you're cheating, you're trying to lose the bigger game.
Re:Othello Is Solved by nemo44x on Monday November 06, 2023 @09:44AM (#38163285)
It’s a famous saying from NASCAR and sort of tongue-in-cheek about how everyone is probably bending the rules as much as they can and if you aren’t you can’t compete with those that are.
Re:Othello Is Solved by gmd63 on Monday November 06, 2023 @11:45AM (#38164941)
It's said in many contexts. I have no interest in a civilization in which the only skill we select for is ability to eat and deceive your fellow man. And I don't believe nature would have much interest in it either.
Re:Othello Is Solved by transcriptase on Saturday November 04, 2023 @08:02PM (#38146553)
The stats from various anti-cheat companies like Vanguard, PunkBuster, and BattleEye demonstrate that some nationalities/cultures believe this more than others.

Even when you adjust for population and CD key pricing.

Re:Othello Is Solved by klodolph on Saturday November 04, 2023 @08:05PM (#38146570)
Cheating is against the rules in mancala, but perhaps, part of the culture of the game. If you’re caught, you retract the move.
Re:Othello Is Solved by elwell on Saturday November 04, 2023 @06:02PM (#38145639)
> It can become more like poker, where deceit is a part of the game.

I wouldn't equate skipping a bowl with bluffing. Maybe, palming a chip as you put your bet in: which certainly isn't "part of the game".

Re:Othello Is Solved by furyofantares on Saturday November 04, 2023 @06:18PM (#38145763)
I also wouldn't equate it with bluffing at all, but from the description, maybe also not palming a chip. It's possible for something that's cheating among one group to be a part of the game among another.

Sports have a lot of things that are in some sense against the rules, but standard penalties are applied if caught, and it's just a part of the game, like fouling a player in basketball. Nobody considers it cheating, it's a part of the game because the penalty is standardized. Of course you still try not to get caught.

Re:Othello Is Solved by thret on Saturday November 04, 2023 @07:52PM (#38146502)
Fouling isn't cheating because it's accidental. If it were deliberate, it would be cheating.
Re:Othello Is Solved by PaulHoule on Saturday November 04, 2023 @09:01PM (#38146909)
It might be accidental and it might not.
Re:Othello Is Solved by couchand on Saturday November 04, 2023 @08:40PM (#38146787)
I'm not sure I agree with this take on basketball strategy. I'm no expert, but my understanding is that intentionally fouling in basketball is largely a time-management move? Like, you want to be "caught" because that's the whole point -- you aren't seeking an advantage in play that the penalty is meant to offset, you're seeking the penalty.
Re:Othello Is Solved by furyofantares on Saturday November 04, 2023 @09:06PM (#38146931)
Time management are an extreme scenario, NOT the main use of fouls.

Fouls are conserved and used throughout the game. They're usually somewhere between intentional and accidental - you'd rather get your hand on the ball and not foul if you can. But you'd often rather foul than they get the 2 points if those are your only options. And how many fouls you have left against their best shooters is a major consideration throughout the game.

There's an anecdote about some Kobe Bryant trash talk that I think demonstrates both that fouls are valued for stopping 2 points, but ALSO the per-player foul limit is an additional consideration and separate strategic consideration.

> So we were playing, and you know it was like a two-on-one break. And, Caron Butler fouls and stops the break. So everybody was like, "Good job! That stop stops two points."

> So, Kobe comes out... and we’re all like, "Good, Good. You saved two points."

> Kobe walks over to him and says, "Hey, who are you guarding?", and Butler responds, "You!", and he goes, "Huh... How many fouls you got?". And Caron says, "I got one!" and Kobe says, "So you only got five left? Well, you need all six fouls to guard me, and you just wasted one... on him! It’s a stupid... stupid play!"

> And you had to think about it like... "God, he’s right!"

Re:Othello Is Solved by EGreg on Sunday November 05, 2023 @01:28AM (#38148551)
When I was 14 and in my first year of college, the lady teaching my course in C gave me a project for an extra grade (because I had skipped a lot of classes, I think). Anyway, it was to program Mancala in C, which I did using Allegro Library I think at the time. Fun times!
Re:Othello Is Solved by elwell on Tuesday November 07, 2023 @01:40PM (#38180940)
Simpler times! I remember working on "Skateopoly", a skateboarding themed Monopoly, in middle school with JavaScript. I should code a fun little game, it's been a while...