> America's global brain drain might have been the single most effective strategy that the planet has seen so far...

> The only question is if the rest of the world is going to wake up and counter this.

Probably not.

Simply put, there's no first-world country in the world where top talent can earn even close to a US salary, which largely due to the fact that US is relatively permissive towards large income disparities.

Other countries "fixing" that would be politically infeasible.

Yet at the same time Liberal thought is the reason we have made such an incredible break thought in AI technology with the LLM. Quite literally the hippy movement lead to the open source movement lead to the internet lead to the LLM. So we have this seeming conundrum between little l and big L liberalism...

... im struggling with the realization that Liberalism the big idea is probably an afforded luxury ideal of the rich, as well as a runaway self-re-enforcing flywheel of wealth/advancement. I benefit from it, but fewer and fewer are going forward, while the US is simultaneously winning harder and harder. This is a nightmarish equation!

> Simply put, there's no first-world country in the world where top talent can earn even close to a US salary, which largely due to the fact that US is relatively permissive towards large income disparities.

Why do you think it's A -> B and not B -> A? What factors of the US being permissive towards large income disparities do other nations lack that prevent them from paying equivalent salaries.

One specific thing I've heard which makes sense to me toward explaining the salary gap is the US tends to have at-will employment while other nations make it more difficult to fire people. I wouldn't personally classify as promoting income disparity though.

> I wouldn't personally classify [at-will] as promoting income disparity though.

Of course it is.

Low-performers are fired from high-paid positions that high-performers keep. This translates performance disparities to income disparities.

> What factors of the US being permissive towards large income disparities do other nations lack that prevent them from paying equivalent salaries.

1. At-will employment

2. Employer-provided benefits

3. Smaller safety net

4. Lower taxes

5. Fewer business regulations

It has an undeniable ability to draw the best talent away from Europe and Asia, who want to earn more. I have worked with armies of these people -- they left their home countries for the opportunity for the big check. And those checks are way past the disparity you describe from at will employment, this is 10x more not 1.4x more.

This is why open borders and immigration is a right wing capitalist value and not a left wing one. Many left wing activists have fallen into this trap of towing the line of giant US corporations that strip the world of their human resource.

> largely due to the fact that US is relatively permissive towards large income disparities.

Actually, its due to a shortage of highly skilled labor/specialists relative to demand. Europe benefits from more advanced math and programming talent as a result of Eastern European and Russian/Ukraine labor availability. US immigration policy puts America at a disadvantage in this regard - something they are weakly trying to address here.

Sorry if that goes against your income inequality agenda.

If you're crossing borders/languages, you're crossing borders/languages.

Not sure why the barrier to using Eastern European talent would be appreciable different. (Time zones?)

> income inequality agenda

No agenda, just analysis.

If you increase income inequality, the top earners can earn more.

> Not sure why the barrier to using Eastern European talent would be appreciable different.

I mean, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria are all EU members, which means they have freedom of movement - they don't even require any visa or work permit. Just show up in Western Europe and work. The same is currently temporarily true for Ukrainians.

Compare that to the extreme effort for them to get a green card in the US.

Thanks.

Don’t you think if this were true there would be more breakout technical (and by extension startup) successes in Europe which doesn’t seem to be the case.

At the same time, moving to the US is unattractive for a significant portion of the talent (not the least due to the US’ socio-cultural-political climate), and working remotely for a US company comes with its own difficulties.

There is unbridled immigration to the US. I truly can't think of a cohort for which the US is unattractive.

There are definitely small ideological, well-off pockets of Europeans, who enjoy living in high safety net countries and don't really want to trade one developed country for another.

They don't necessarily have the skills to draw high US tech salaries either.

But for the vast majority, like you said, the US is extremely attractive.

North/West European middle class, for example.

I'm from Finland myself, I've been living in the US for some years, and I have no concrete plans to return. I've known many Finns who have tried the same, but most of them have returned to Finland, or at least to Europe. Most of them are highly educated professionals. It turns out the difference in standard of living is not that large. For most people, living closer to family and friends is more important. If they find a decent opportunity closer to home, they usually take it.

You can see the same effect with Finnish nurses. They could improve their standard of living significantly by moving to Norway. Probably more than software engineers moving to the US. It would be easy, because Norway is close, the culture is pretty similar, and Finnish citizens have a subjective right to live and work there. But few people actually do that.

Fair enough. I'd hate move an hour away, let alone to another country.

But for anyone that is able/willing to move....

I suggest that a substantial portion of that "socio-cultural-political climate" is due to foreign influence operations trying to amplify division for this purpose.

Haha this is such a globally out of touch statement. Yes a few European nations enjoy a much better quality of life while looking down their noses at the rest of us, blocking immigration, and generally being xenophobic.

And it’s not like the climate in Europe isn’t verging on ethno fascism in several major state…

> "America's global brain drain might have been the single most effective strategy"

The website has a section titled "Bring your AI Skills to the U.S.", and then a button with this label "Learn about pathways to work in the U.S.".

This is very encouraging. And it reminded me of Eric Schmidt's recommendation on this topic [1], which was published on the final report of the National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence:

Chapter 10. Page 178:

"Nations that can successfully attract and retain highly skilled individuals gain strategic and economic advantages over competitors." [...] "Unfortunately, international students in the United States are increasingly choosing to study in other countries or return home. One reason is the growing backlog of green card petitions. Indian immigrants face a particularly long wait. Many will spend decades on constrictive work visas waiting to receive their green cards, hindering both the technology sector’s ability to recruit talent and Indian immigrants’ quality of life."

The report recommends to focus on building better Immigration Policies. Maybe this .gov initiative listened to the advice from the report.

[1]: https://www.nscai.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Full-Report...

Yea I think it's more that Schmidt believes that AI is the force-multiplier of any existing system of power in the world today, and whatever it takes the US needs to continue to fuel it.

But he also seems to understand the labor/intelligence relationship to get there better than anyone else. I really missed him when he left Google, Sundar is a pail shadow.

I find that very interesting given Eric Schmidt took citizenship in Cyprus, and to my knowledge, not because he has any prior tie to that country. If he really believed in the U.S. then he shouldn’t be getting late-in-life (post-billionaire) citizenship elsewhere.

When you are a billionaire the greatest thing you can afford is self-contradictory behavior.

No one else is really capable of making this technology at the level of the US, besides maybe China. Europe has the brainpower for sure, but they don't seem to be able to leverage it into actual innovation.

European technologists and engineers are hamstrung by EU regulations.

Good government are like good spices - a little bit can make a dish amazing, but too much utterly ruins it.

Is it really regulation? Or is it financing, laws about firing, cultural approaches to work, or a myriad of other differences?

Isn't the EU currently considering making open source ai developers legally liable for their models?

> Or is it financing, laws about firing, cultural approaches to work, or a myriad of other differences?

You could argue chicken or egg, but many of those are regulation-related.

…and I would’ve gotten away with it if it weren’t for those darn regulators!

The US used to have consumer focused regulators too, but they have been undermined for long enough to neutralize the threat to monopolistic megacorps.

why would they? for most people in the western world it seems location doesn't matter anymore.

I think the foreign influence operations that aim to increase division in American society and promote equality of outcome are an attempt to counter it, not by outcompeting America but by hobbling it, seem to be somewhat effective.

Yea that seems to be the idea -- try to constrain America as much as possible if you can't beat it on its own terms. However US military as grown such that it likely can fight a 3 front war and most other nations would rather the sweet sweet trade deals they get by cooperating over some obscure ideological vision of a world without america.

There's good reason I run GrapheneOS and Qubes OS exclusively on my devices, and I route everything coming out of my systems over Proton and Tor (ofc not nested xD)...

> The US is now on the verge of the second great breakthrough of mass automation of that data, intelligence and action. I am honestly shocked that this third stage of American Dominance has not be countered by any other nation save China, and even they're only defensively.

As someone who has similar thoughts, I'm not so sure. The EU has been trying for a while. Russia also puts quite a bit of effort into having an Internet that can operate separately from the US.