Likewise, and have been burned enough times that I can _usually_ recognize the patterns within my first few weeks at an org (assuming they were clever enough to "hide" the institutional level problems during the interview process.)

A sample of my "Giving a shit" checklist includes: Do they not utilize metrics or care when they tank? Do the rank and file engineers have a general malase and use terms like "not my problem" with impunity? Does management continually deprioritize critical "keep the lights on" work eg security patches WHEN they are fully aware of the repercussions (this knowing is key.) List of red flags goes on.

No org is perfect, but why endure the pain when it can be avoided. Especially so when it can easily be recognized early enough in many cases.

During my IBEW apprenticeship, I worked at two several-MW datacenters. One was a public agency, the other a private enterprise.

Recently the private data center was sold to some international holding company, and it brought a smile to my face recollecting a conversation I had once with [now-former] CEO:

"The data center is just a trick pony show we use to sell our real product."

Glad they did well on the sale to new foreign owners. Definitional evil.

Zix/Appriver?

My company uses metrics and I hate it. The best way to improve metrics? Decrease vertical height so you can fit more shit on the page. Is this actually good for anyone? Probably not.

Actually giving a shit means you care about whether or not you're pursuing the right metrics

Either you're not measuring anything useful with your current metrics or you fall into not giving a shit category

Duuude, I bailed on a startup a year ago that gas lit the shit out of me during interviews (I had red flags but stupidly ignored them) and left in the first 2 weeks when all of the red confirmed true. 8 months later, lay offs.

> Does management continually deprioritize critical "keep the lights on" work eg security patches WHEN they are fully aware of the repercussions (this knowing is key.)

One variant is when Management punishes you for bringing something up by making it your task to then fix it. I think they don't do this on purpose, they often just don't think about it. And it leads to a culture of "don't tell the boss". I've seen some really dire problems swept under the carpet because of this.

I thought you were talking about Jony Ive for a second.

Ditto. Kinda. Most ppl do give a shit. The disconnect comes from what they give a shit about. For example:

Head of agency only gives a shit about billable hours, not sustainable revenue.

CTO gives a shit about shiny new tech objects, not how appropriate they are for the news of the client.

Manager gives a shit about over-committing and shipping gawd-awful soltions, and not the integrity and esteem of the team.

Team members give a shit about not making waves, and bad processes and lack of growth (i.e., learning new things) persist.

Designer gives a shit about the aesthetics of the design, not about how it's going to compromise the UX.

And so on.

I've left more than one job because I'm not wired to be complicit (in someone else self-destructive shit giving), and because I give a shit about clients and users, as well as being able to look at myself in the mirror.

>as well as being able to look at myself in the mirror.

This is so tantamount to "living a good life."

I have two attorney brothers, and the things they fight for... jfc.

Hired bullies. Hound dogs. At the mercy of [well-]funding.

This is so wise. I'm gonna ask my teammates next week about what it is in their job that they give a shit about.