News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by ThomasKole on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:34AM (#37974239)
Hey all, author here!

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. The question I always get from tech people - yes, all open source software. 90% Blender, 9% Gimp, 1% Darktable or so.

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by asimpletune on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:49AM (#37974310)
What made you interested in doing this region? How did you find source material? Also, are you planning on doing more?

I imagine that some nations would even give out grants for an open source and fully immersive, 3d version of some historical region. Like parts of classical or hellenic Greece for example, or Carthage, Cairo, Syracuse, Judea, etc...

Thanks for making this btw, great work!

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by ThomasKole on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:02PM (#37978091)
I can't really say why I got interested, it just happened. History in general is fascinating, and I find Meoamerican history extra special.

I don't have any concrete plants for more, but who knows!

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by yoyopa on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:13AM (#37974398)
is there evidence of that many street trees, or was that artistic license
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by ThomasKole on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:39AM (#37974508)
A bit of artistic license, but the trees play a crucial role. They are Ahuejotes, and they keep together the plots of farmland called Chinampas. You can see some of this today in Xochimilco.

We don't know if that was what it was like in Tenochtitlan, but it is likely. What adds to this is the fact that the houses are all one story, so the trees look taller and more numerous than they are.

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by PierreProstata on Sunday October 22, 2023 @09:27AM (#37975172)
In the same vein, many of today's boulevards and highways line up with old streets in your renders, is that a historical coincidence or is the Mexico City layout a direct result of Tenochtitlan remains despite its destruction?
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by wsc981 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:07AM (#37975510)
I know in The Netherlands this happened in the city I grew up, Hoogeveen [0].

> In the second half of the 1960s, Hoogeveen was the fastest growing town in the Netherlands. Until that period, the town contained a number of canals, which had been dug in the area's early days when it was a prime source of peat and maritime transportation was a necessity for efficient transportation of cargo. By the 1960s the rise of the automobile and truck-based transportation meant the canals had lost much of their economic function, and the canals were filled in.

———

[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoogeveen

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by selimthegrim on Sunday October 22, 2023 @11:16AM (#37976086)
This is also true in New Orleans.
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by akiselev on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:35AM (#37975727)
It's not a coincidence. The conquistadors spent months in Tenochtitlan as guests of Montezuma and wrote extensively about how amazing the urban planning was. They would have preferred to keep the city in tact all things considered.

Since the Aztecs had done all of the hard work of figuring how to build out drainage and stability with the chinampas, the Spaniards built their new buildings on top of the foundations remaining from the Aztec buildings. It then took several centuries to fill in all of the canals and turn them into streets so the layout of Mexico City very much reflects Tenochtitlan.

For example the Zócalo square is right where the Aztec ceremonial center used to be and I believe the Metropolitan Cathedral was originally built on top of the foundations of a minor temple that was built as part of the Templo Mayor complex.

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by totetsu on Sunday October 22, 2023 @09:32PM (#37980623)
> You can see some of this today in Xochimilco. Yikes https://maps.app.goo.gl/5XgfQTpiNaz8QUtf6
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by malermeister on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:26AM (#37974451)
Incredible work! Since you've made this in 3D, I wonder if that could potentially enable a more immersive way to get more out of the work you've put in than just static images?

Would it be possible to do a sort of flyover video with the assets you've created? Or potentially even plop the assets into a game engine and let people interactively explore?

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by ThomasKole on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:41AM (#37974517)
The area is huge, to a point where you have to worry about floating-point imprecision. The sheer amount of stuff in the scene is pretty crazy.

Perhaps I can bake it down to something like what you might see in Google Earth in 3D.

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by speps on Sunday October 22, 2023 @09:04AM (#37975018)
Super impressed! I can help you make this into a real-time flyover if you're willing to collaborate. My contact is in my profile ;)
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by chefandy on Sunday October 22, 2023 @09:42AM (#37975264)
Have you tried rendering any of it in UE utilizing nanite?
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by Aeolun on Sunday October 22, 2023 @11:48AM (#37976393)
How did you fill it with buildings? I imagine they’re not all unique?
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by ThomasKole on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:06PM (#37978138)
Certainly not. Take a look at Blenders new Geometry Nodes system.
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by MilStdJunkie on Sunday October 22, 2023 @08:17PM (#37980251)
I was gonna ask, "did you use geometry nodes?" But then I CTRL+F this comment chain.

I've gotten absolutely incredible mileage out of geo nodes for forests and cities. Once you get used to the peculiarities, geometry incredibly superior to using particles and heatmaps. And I'm just a hobbyist! I use Blender for gamemastering, but haven't ever been paid to do it . . yet.

(If that sounds like fishing it is totally fishing. How does a middle-age MilStdJunkie break into the modelling / simulating market?)

Did you do any street-level renders? I realize that it's completely, totally a different kettle of fish, the detail you got here would murder the entire world's computers if it had 1m scale detail.

Fabulous, fabulous work. Amazing. I did something similar for New Amsterdam ~1660CE, for "Providence", a Lovecraftian horror game set in colonial New England. But New Amsterdam and Seekonk in 1660 is nothing compared to this, Tenochtitlan in the immediate pre-contact period.

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by erwincoumans on Sunday October 22, 2023 @08:02AM (#37974623)
Amazing work. Are any Blender .blend files available? How large are they?
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by ThomasKole on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:21PM (#37978249)
Not at the moment, the problem is that the total project is quite large and would require me to write quite some documentation if you wanted to get started. Once I free up some time I might!
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by Beached on Monday October 23, 2023 @12:00AM (#37981469)
please do, this is great and it would be a shame to lose all this initial hard work
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by impendia on Sunday October 22, 2023 @08:25AM (#37974746)
This is amazing, one of the coolest things I have ever seen on HN. Thanks for doing this!

My question: what kind of evidence/sources were helpful in figuring out what Tenochtitlan looked like?

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by ThomasKole on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:05PM (#37978119)
People have devoted their entire lives to studying this, but I can give a very short overview:

First, there's early colonial maps, such as the Mapa de Uppsala, which give us a decent understanding of the city. Then there are the accounts of the arriving Spanish. There's also archaeological evidence all throughout Mexico City, though much has been actively destroyed.

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by moralestapia on Sunday October 22, 2023 @08:32AM (#37974785)
I am Mexican and I'd like to congratulate you for all this effort and thank you for the amazing experience you put together for us to enjoy.

I went through all of this history through primary school, it was interesting and we studied that for years (it is/was the standard curricula), yet, this made me put together some things I haven't realized before. The New Fire ceremony looks amazing. Visualization goes a long way!

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by qwertox on Sunday October 22, 2023 @09:18AM (#37975100)
My first thought when the page was loading was "Wow", then while scrolling even more so. It's impressive.

How long have you been working on this?

Edit: Oh, I see, `This project is the result of over 1.5 years of research and iteration. It would not have been possible without the input of the following people:`

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by dale_glass on Sunday October 22, 2023 @09:22AM (#37975130)
That looks amazing!

If you'd ever like to see it in VR, we run an open source desktop/VR social platform at https://overte.org/

It shouldn't be too hard to set up a server and take a walk among the past. By the looks of it it's probably way too big for the entire thing to be loaded at once, so things likely need trimming down quite a bit.

We're a decentralized system, so you can run your own server if you like.

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by m0llusk on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:29AM (#37975697)
Text mentions smoked peppers, but there is no smoke rising from the city. Was that too hard or distracting or both? Might smoke be added in the future as an addenda? Inspiring as is to be sure, but for sake of realism it struck me as off since the rest is so detailed and eye catching.
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by subroutine on Sunday October 22, 2023 @10:57AM (#37975905)
This image shows smoke rising from the temples:

https://tenochtitlan.thomaskole.nl/image_dest/newfire_twopea...

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by m0llusk on Monday October 23, 2023 @03:54AM (#37982700)
Is that really the expectation? That fire would only be used within the extremely limited range of temples? It seems more likely that there would be fires for cooking and basic industry all over the city. This would have a big impact on how the city looks. Maybe they are using induction for cooking?
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by backtoyoujim on Sunday October 22, 2023 @11:35AM (#37976269)
Has there been any attempt to recreate the daily wood/charcoal smoke released from that all that ?
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by catapart on Sunday October 22, 2023 @11:59AM (#37976501)
First and foremost, this is incredible! Fantastic work! I've always wanted to do something like this (on a MUCH smaller scale) with the Alamo mission, in Texas, as a way to visualize the battle, in real time.

To that purpose, my end goal was always to pull whatever environments I modeled into Unreal engine (so nanite and lumen make short work of my detailed models). Which makes me wonder if you had any plans to do the same?

Walking around in ancient cities should not be reserved for assassination missions in action games (regardless of how fun that is). I'd love to just have a 'day in the life' simulation that I could move through, interact with, and study! Feels like a way to make history feel tangible. It would be awesome to immerse myself in a New Mexican pueblo builder society, or with an indigenous Native American tribe on the praries, or in the Japanese imperial Palace circa the Edo era, or in pre-medieval Europe, or, or, or...

Sorry for the predominant 'what else you got' vibe; I really am impressed by the scope and detail of your work! It just tends to send the mind racing with possibility, which I hope you'll take as the compliment I intend it as!

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by pomian on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:14PM (#37978193)
Great idea. Historic recreation. Then get various historians, and/or people with regional historic stories, that may have been passed on from generation to generation, and add them too. Possibly a sidebar to check various layers as in Geo mapping, but instead of features, you get eras and or different points of view.
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by catapart on Monday October 23, 2023 @07:28AM (#37984173)
Oh, awesome addition!
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by simonebrunozzi on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:24PM (#37976742)
Congrats for your work! The last night photo is perhaps the most beautiful.
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by wishfish on Sunday October 22, 2023 @02:31PM (#37977857)
This is amazing work. Do you have any street level views? Would be interesting to see some of the neighborhoods and plazas from ground level.
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by ThomasKole on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:02PM (#37978102)
No streetview level, the reconstruction is definitely "impressionistic" in that way. There's only illusion of detail, it does not hold up up close.
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by Beached on Sunday October 22, 2023 @11:59PM (#37981466)
yet? if you still have the files, would you consider turning this into a VR experience and add in street level detail slowly over time?

if that sounds like way too much work, any chance you would open source your work for needs to add to it?

Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by zelda-mazzy on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:30PM (#37978329)
Thanks for putting this together and doing all the research. 1.5 years is a long time but the end result looks amazing. Are there any plans to let educational institutions or historical museums use this? I imagine such a presentation would be invaluable for Mesoamerican studies.
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by ThomasKole on Sunday October 22, 2023 @03:35PM (#37978369)
It's all CC-BY-4.0, so, yep.
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by dakial1 on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:24PM (#37978758)
Amazing work! Congratulations! I never knew Tenochtitlan was so huge and beautiful
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by ouraf on Sunday October 22, 2023 @06:36PM (#37979701)
Have you considered 3d printing this? It would be a massive project, but would be a museum level display piece.
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by causi on Monday October 23, 2023 @05:05AM (#37983251)
How long until Ubisoft offers to buy it off you for a new Assassin's Creed game?
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by htamas on Monday October 23, 2023 @05:15AM (#37983297)
Amazing work! I just came back from Angkor, Cambodia and I wish there was a similar reconstruction for that place also.
Re:A Dutch graphic artist reconstructed Tenochtitlan in 3D by joshuaheard on Monday October 23, 2023 @11:36AM (#37987231)
Great work! I'd love to see some close ups. Maybe a street view like Google Maps.