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Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by anon373839 on Friday October 20, 2023 @01:24PM (#37958937)
I remember hearing or reading a suggestion that many US policing problems would be solved overnight if the law would simply mandate officers to wear dorky uniforms. The “militarized badass in aviators” image attracts the wrong type of people to the job, while a dorky uniform would mean that only those who actually wanted to serve the public would remain. I have no idea if it would work, but I always liked the idea.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by Animats on Friday October 20, 2023 @01:33PM (#37959056)
This was for years actual policy in the UK, where most of the cops are unarmed. Using Land Rovers as police cars was considered too military, for example.

Sunnyvale, California, has a combined police and fire department. They train their people for both and they move back and forth. Emergency medical services is in there, too. At one time, their cops wore red blazers with the city insignia.

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by jackhack on Friday October 20, 2023 @02:22PM (#37959668)
But consider that Sunnyvale, California has the benefit of a very upscale demographic, no gang activity, low organized crime, etc. What works for one place will likely not apply elsewhere (e.g. no one-size-fits-all solution).

Organized crime (especially drug crime) is a quasi-military force. The police are threatening billions of dollars in illicit profit, and that will not go unchallenged easily.

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by init2null on Friday October 20, 2023 @03:15PM (#37960257)
Police will always need some SWAT and borderline military teams. The question is whether the average street cop needs to be weapon-wielding law enforcement, and I suggest the answer is no.

The danger level goes down when it's known that a cop's power is in their reinforcements. The individual cop would be little danger and doesn't need to be shot.

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by eadmund on Friday October 20, 2023 @03:17PM (#37960283)
> Organized crime (especially drug crime) is a quasi-military force. The police are threatening billions of dollars in illicit profit, and that will not go unchallenged easily.

Arguably that should be addressed by a different organisation than the folks who enforce traffic laws and investigate petty theft. The state guard, perhaps?

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by kulahan on Friday October 20, 2023 @04:31PM (#37961164)
We do have an Association for Drug Enforcement, but having one government entity cover every bit of gang activity in the nation seems like a lot of effort.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by rsynnott on Friday October 20, 2023 @05:42PM (#37961885)
So in Ireland, as mentioned elsewhere, our normal police wear a hi-vis Star Trek uniform, and aren’t generally armed. We also have a few specialised branches for organised crime, terrorism, etc, though; some of those _are_ armed, and have significantly scarier uniforms, and much more extensive training. Same organisation, but totally different role.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by ryathal on Friday October 20, 2023 @04:16PM (#37960998)
Forcing cops to double as firefighters helps a lot to keep undesirable officers out. It forces all cops to be in firefighting shape, which is significantly more difficult that the average police requirements. It also means cops need to be willing to run into burning buildings, which is more danger than the average cop would ever face.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by kulahan on Friday October 20, 2023 @04:30PM (#37961155)
In Utah, at least, all cops are required to also be EMTs. I think understanding a lot about how the body works and how to save a life might also have an effect on how you respond to some events, but I don't know.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by kyleee on Friday October 20, 2023 @10:13PM (#37963483)
Sort of depends on if they have a duty of care and are required to intervene medically.

I think George Floyd is a good case study for reform; Chauvin and all officers should be required to assess for medical emergencies at all times basically and take at least some level of medical action when necessary. So Chauvin should have been required to check for consciousness and then provide aid once finding Floyd to be in medical distress.

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by threatofrain on Saturday October 21, 2023 @03:34AM (#37964862)
What Chauvin and fellow officers did was already in violation of policy. The problem is that they didn’t care, and having extra rules in the policy may help others but not George Floyd. If it weren’t for cameras things would’ve turned out better for those police officers.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by SpaceNoodled on Friday October 20, 2023 @05:33PM (#37961811)
In my experience, Sunnyvale cops aren't better than cops anywhere else.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by parl_match on Friday October 20, 2023 @01:38PM (#37959126)
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by kamikaz1k on Friday October 20, 2023 @01:51PM (#37959308)
1973, nice

> Abstract

> FOLLOWING A DISCUSSION OF PSYCHOLOGICAL AND SOCIAL FACTORS RELATED TO POLICE-COMMUNITY RELATIONS, THE AUTHOR DISCUSSES THE RATIONALE BEHIND, AND RESULTS OF THIS CALIFORNIA EXPERIMENT. IN 1969, THE MENLO PARK POLICE FORCE CHANGED FROM THE TRADITIONAL MILITARISTIC UNIFORM TO BLAZERS AND TIES, MORE IN KEEPING WITH CIVILIAN MODES OF DRESS. RANK WAS NOT EXHIBITED, NIGHTSTICKS WERE DISPENSED WITH, AND GUNS WERE WORN BENEATH THE BLAZER. RESULTS OF THIS NEW POLICE IDENTITY INCLUDE PEER GROUP ISOLATION, INCREASED INVOLVEMENT IN EDUCATION, INCREASED RECRUITMENT OF INDIVIDUALS WITH COLLEGE DEGREES, AND A DECREASE IN PERSONNEL TURNOVER. A 1971 COMPARATIVE STUDY OF THE MENLO PARK POLICE AND TWO OTHER DEPARTMENTS IN THE AREA INDICATED A DECREASED NEED FOR A SYMBOL OF AUTHORITY AND IMPROVED POLICE-COMMUNITY RELATIONS IN MENLO PARK. DESPITE ATTITUDINAL AND BEHAVIORAL DIFFERENCES, THERE WERE NO DIFFERENCES IN GENERAL PERSONALITY ASSESSMENT MEASUREMENTS. (AUTHOR ABSTRACT MODIFIED)

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by postmodest on Friday October 20, 2023 @01:31PM (#37959038)
Safety vests and Bobby hats for everyone!
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by thsksbd on Friday October 20, 2023 @01:45PM (#37959226)
Its a cute theory, but police need to be respected to do their job. A dorky uniform is contrary to that. A police force that is not respected will lead to escalation of violence.

We might not like what I wrote, but's basic human phycology.

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by anyoneamous on Friday October 20, 2023 @01:50PM (#37959285)
Respect can be earned through repeated professional and trustworthy behaviour - what you are talking about is fear.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by beebeepka on Friday October 20, 2023 @02:12PM (#37959557)
For certain types of people, respect can only be achieved via intimidation. Or mean the same thing.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by anon373839 on Friday October 20, 2023 @02:30PM (#37959747)
Considering the totally dysfunctional state of American policing, I think we can longer afford to give police that type of “respect”.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by Kinrany on Friday October 20, 2023 @02:26PM (#37959712)
If that were true, the appropriate solution would be deploying intimidation techniques against those people, not wearing a uniform that does it to everyone
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by beebeepka on Friday October 20, 2023 @02:41PM (#37959857)
I am deeply confused by this response. All I did was described authoritarians a little differently.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by ghusto on Friday October 20, 2023 @02:52PM (#37959969)
Worked fine in England with _every_ type of criminal, when police were basically wearing a giant tit on their heads.

Respect isn't given to people who look movie-tough-guy-cool, it's given to people who know what they're doing.

When one of the earlier police commissioners was asked why the police don't carry guns, he replied that it would put too much distance between them and the public. The police in the U.S.A. seem to actively be going for that distance.

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by adhesive_wombat on Friday October 20, 2023 @04:27PM (#37961127)
> it would put too much distance between them and the public

It's not just one person's opinion, either. The British police is (supposed to, it's stretching further from it under the endless cuts) adhere to Peelian principles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by ghusto on Sunday October 22, 2023 @12:55PM (#37977012)
Thanks, that page is super interesting.

> The Metropolitan Police officers were often referred to as 'Bobbies' after Sir Robert (Bobby) Peel

So _that's_ why! :D

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by thsksbd on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:23PM (#38008789)
And a massive billy club they weren't afraid to bludgeon people with.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by mcv on Friday October 20, 2023 @01:53PM (#37959329)
I don't know how respected US police currently are, but they definitely lead to escalation of violence. I doubt dorky uniforms would make it worse.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by zzzbra on Friday October 20, 2023 @01:50PM (#37959288)
this is a bizarre attitude, similar to the one that conflates rehabilitation with punishment and justice with retribution.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by Clubber on Friday October 20, 2023 @01:49PM (#37959275)
>A police force that is not respected will lead to escalation of violence.

Escalation by whom, the police or the citizens?

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by thsksbd on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:25PM (#38008801)
By both, which sucks either way.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by distract8901 on Friday October 20, 2023 @07:00PM (#37962430)
Sorry, I don't respect people who murder innocent civilians without cause or due process. Or people that can arbitrarily seize any amount of your property, forever, with no possible recourse.

Or really tacticool guys in general. They're pretty much always absolute assholes.

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by thsksbd on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:26PM (#38008810)
Police killings are pretty rare (but unfortunately not sufficiently prosecuted)
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by make3 on Friday October 20, 2023 @01:50PM (#37959297)
longer training too. a two year college degree in policing feels like the minimum. we do that in Canada. Actually train police officers in de-escalation techniques, and in some amount of social work adjacent stuff, like how to deal with people with mental health problems, domestic situations or drug abuse problems in a more intelligent manner.

This also filters out ppl who don't have the attention span or the brain cells to do that, which is a good thing. We also have separate non police folks for parking violations and other more menial stuff.

Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by PredictorX1 on Friday October 20, 2023 @03:08PM (#37960176)
I agree regarding training: Police officers are expected to deal with all members of the public, some of whom have disabilities or other challenges which should be accommodated accordingly. Having enough police who are sufficiently trained would seem essential.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by rsynnott on Friday October 20, 2023 @01:52PM (#37959322)
Huh. Finally a reasonable explanation for the new Irish police uniform (which looks suspiciously like a hi-viz version of a DS9-era Starfleet uniform): https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0815/1315736-garda-unif...
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by Kinrany on Friday October 20, 2023 @02:21PM (#37959647)
That's an amazing uniform
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by distract8901 on Friday October 20, 2023 @06:55PM (#37962392)
Absolutely incredible
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by backtoyoujim on Friday October 20, 2023 @02:01PM (#37959422)
Swiss Guard is the exception to the rule.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by frob on Friday October 20, 2023 @02:57PM (#37960041)
In the little village of 2000 near me, the 4 cops dress in all black and have a black-on-black motif for their vehicles. Literally, it is black text on a black car with some grey and gold outlining. I'm pretty sure it makes them feel like badasses as they ticket drivers for tinted windows or missing the obscured 35 mph sign a quarter mile after the highlighted and lit 45 mph sign.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by readthenotes1 on Friday October 20, 2023 @03:57PM (#37960772)
Also a theme in _A Confederacy of Dunces_, but applied to the military.
Re:Cops Are Suing a Teen for Invasion of Privacy After False... by autoexec on Friday October 20, 2023 @04:53PM (#37961376)
Bad police officers in Thailand were at one time made to wear hello kitty arm bands. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/07/world/asia/07cnd-thai.htm...

Hello Kitty is popular enough that I worry it might encourage bad behavior