Now I’m suddenly curious: does enamel regrow the way a precipitate mineral will fill in gaps of a porous rock, or is it a more biological process?

Anyways, thanks for the link. I’m going to read then probably try this out.

You got me curious about tooth osteoblasts, some links: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK572055/#:~:text=The%20....

They’re actually called ameloblasts and it seems they do not persist long term (according to our current understanding) “ The cells are part of the reduced enamel epithelium after enamel maturation and then subsequently undergo apoptosis before or after tooth eruption.” from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ameloblast?wprov=sfti1#1._Morp...

However anecdotally, I feel like my teeth did recover from a crack without any dental work

I think its the former because enamel is a mineral and not living tissue—This is just my uneducated opinion though.

Last few times I went for a teeth cleaning, I was told about how "tarter" (the supposed "bad stuff") develops mostly around where the saliva glands excrete into the mouth.

I added this to how I was able to have a full hole in my tooth fill back (when poor and in college) in by just keeping it clean, not eating junk food, and swishing spit in my mouth around that tooth religiously for a long time.

Dentist later said, "nope, didn't happen, teeth don't work that way"

> keeping it clean, not eating junk food, and swishing spit in my mouth around that tooth religiously for a long time.

This is why I’ve decided to follow an OMAD (One Meal a Day) diet, if I have to dirty up my mouth to survive, I’ll at least do it one time a day.

I removed white sugar/corn syrup from my diet and my teeth have rarely had issues for many years. Even when I skipped regular teeth brushing in the past.

I want to do that too but it’s a hellish nightmare because sugar is in nearly everything sold at grocery stores, and living in a big city there are also endless temptations. I did manage to kick the habit of putting sugar in tea and coffee though, which is good because I drink those nearly everyday.

Congrats!! Building/stopping habits step by step is easier. Your freewill is stronger than the groceries, wish you success.

I love this comment because I am a strong advocate of free will, but sometimes I forget that I have it. Thank you.

Note: It can take several decades for the damage to accumulate, even for completely absurd diets. It is very difficult to observe results from changes to lifestyle or routine and correctly attribute them.

Take these anecdotes with a grain of salt.

Decades? Maybe in some people others it can be observed in months.

Most will start seeing dental issues with untreated tooth decay in the beginning or during their 30's, which equates roughly 2 decades of mistreatment. If accelerated, in your 20's after 1 decade.

Assuming you're not predisposed to other issues and that you still brush your teeth at least once a day most of the time, that's the speed of decay you should expect and the timelines you're working with. The daily, monthly or even yearly progression is miniscule, making it difficult to observe if it has been slowed or halted, especially in messy anecdotal tests.

The exception being tooth grinding, which can go faster and is easy to measure.

One meal a day honestly sounds like a good way to mess with your blood sugar - at the very least it won't do you any favors, and you'll still have calcium build-up and possible staining from what you drink, and little mechanical use also means whatever gets in gets to stick around longer.

I mean it may at first but the body is good at adapting to changes like this for long term (Keto diet is an excellent example of this). Besides I will still be eating carbohydrates (simple and complex) just one time a day but not in the same quantity as 3 meals a day. Reserves of sugar are also stored in the liver in case the body is really desperate for it.

If you could do serious damage to yourself only eating once a day we would've died out hundreds of thousands of years ago.

Hundreds of thousands years ago life expectancy wasn’t 80yo.

That is mostly because of childhood mortality. A large number of babies were unlikely to make it to the age of five. Which significantly drags down the average life expectancy.

And I'm saying if only eating a meal a day did us harm, given the _way_ worse conditions of most of our history, we wouldn't have nearly gotten this far.

It doesn't mess with your blood sugar. Assuming you're eating a low sugar meal with high fat and complex starches, your blood sugar stays at a normal level. It does take time for your body to adjust, though.

I can wake up and go for a 15 mile hike with no breakfast and not feeling hungry.

See: intermittent fasting

There is an American meme that believes that not eating often and regularly is unhealthy. It’s untrue. Study after study shows that fasting is good for us.

Exactly. And no one wonders why the countries with the highest rates of obesity are those in which a high calorie breakfast is the norm and actively recommended.

Breakfast is the least natural meal, you should not even be hungry when you wake up, it's unhealthy and should be skipped.

I heard it said elsewhere that a mouse deprived of food dies in a matter of dys while even a slender built human can with water last approx a month before succumbing to starvation. 3 meals a day is more a modern indulgence than best practice.

Blood sugar levels are not something that needs to be babysat by a metabolically healthy person. We should be able to seamlessly move from being fueled by glucose to ketones. (Well, I suppose suddenly running out of available glucose because of strenuous endurance activity can sometimes be rough waiting for the switch to complete. Thing is, once in ketosis this kind of activity is easier as energy supply becomes more steady state)

The only broad concern I would have is being more prone to accidentally having too much calorie restriction for a prolonged period, where metabolism reduction, potential thyroid issues, and potential nutrient deficiencies can come into play based on highly individual thresholds.

I also suppose some people who fast, especially on very low carb/carnivore diets can sometimes experience the exact opposite of your concern, their blood sugar levels can become constantly elevated, seemingly induced primarily by elevated cortisol, though also seemingly effected by other complicated individual factors like the kinds of stored fatty acids they are burning.

Happened to me too, I was surprised when it just stopped hurting one day and healed

Aside: My wife recently had a kid and the experience taught me how much work gets done to you just because you're being monitored that you may not actually need. You definitely need to know your own body and trust yourself to some degree. At least pregnancy is having a resurgence in "natural" birth.

Is dentistry the same? I could see this as plausible. My assumption at times has been that people's teeth all just fell out immediately before the 1900s lol, which is probably further from the truth

Just wait until you see someone bounce between hospital -> inpatient rehab -> hospital, etc. Each step takes the previous medication list as mandatory truth, and then tacks on some new just-in-cases. Watching over the medical system and making sure its constructive behavior isn't outright abusing a patient is a full time job.

I wonder how it stands up against fluoroapatite pastes like Biomin-F.

link to the toothpaste: https://biomin.co.uk/products/biominr-f-toothpaste

Fwiw, our dentist in Australia recommended this for a brief period for one of our kids as he had concerns about their enamel.

What products have you used that are available in Australia?

The GC tooth mousse linked by OP

Thank you, this is the first time I’ve come across this company/product so I’ll give it a shot. One thing that always confuses me about these speciality toothpastes is do I have to keep using them for an indefinite period of time (like fluoride) or do I stop once I get what I want out of it? Right now I use Sensodyne with Stannous Fluoride.

I used GC Tooth-Mousse after teeth whitening, and the sensitivity noticeably decreased. It is simple to apply and has a nice taste. Recommend it!

Do you brush with it or apply it like a face cream?

In a dental office they would squeeze quite a lot into the tooth trays and have it sit on your teeth for 3 mins or so, much like a fluoride treatment.

At home, put some on your finger and rub it on the front and back of your teeth, let sit for 3 mins.

Rinse it off after that time, no eating or drinking for at least 30 mins after.

So would you use it just before brushing? Or is it better to brush (with a toothbrush), then wait 30 minutes (for the toothpaste fluoride to take effect), and then apply GC Tooth-Mousse?

After brushing, just like a dentist would apply fluoride after a cleaning.

Dentist recommended to apply it on your finger and “brush with your finger”

Would love some Pubmed links if you have any.

Maybe Tooth Mousse is great.

But I gotta call BS on the idea that dentists don’t promote it because it’s against their interests. By that logic, they wouldn’t promote brushing and flossing at all.

I don't think GP meant dentists don't promote it so you keep coming back. Sometimes doctors and pharmacists recommend drugs because they've been paid to promote it, and if nobody's paying to promote this one it's not going to get recommended as often, especially if there's a competing drug that does the same thing.

If you look up academic studies on flossing they nearly all say the same thing, it doesn’t prevent cavities more than brushing and the studies normally end with “well flossing isn’t hurting anything so might as well keep doing it”.

Flossing only helps with gingivitis in which case mouth rinses perform better.

In the studies that do show flossing helps against cavities they are about professional flossing and not self flossing.

So dentists continue to push unfounded claims regarding flossing.

> If you look up academic studies on flossing they nearly all say the same thing, it doesn’t prevent cavities more than brushing and the studies normally end with “well flossing isn’t hurting anything so might as well keep doing it”.

That’s actually a misrepresentation of the studies. It gets pushed by journalists because contrarian “doctors are wrong” takes are very popular, especially when they tell people what they want to hear.

The issue with flossing is that it’s hard to rigorously study over the duration needed to provide significant results. You also can’t really construct a study where you ask one cohort to not study for a couple decades to see if they do worse, because that has ethical concerns. So we’re left with self-reported flossing activity retrospectives. The problem with those is that people who floss tend to have better hygiene and self-care overall, so now we can’t isolate flossing as the reason for better dental health over a lifetime.

> In the studies that do show flossing helps against cavities they are about professional flossing and not self flossing.

This is an example of what I’m talking about: There are studies out there that show positive benefits of flossing, but if you find someone aggressively searching for reasons to discredit flossing then they’ll always find a reason to dismiss the evidence. When the goal becomes to be contrarian or to disprove something, you can always find a reason to dismiss the studies.

It’s always important to ask why and look for the data yourself.

Look at all the wives tales in the past that were semi-effective just because of placebo effects or like you say implementing a health measure (even if it is not directly effective) normally means you have better hygiene anyways.

The problem with flossing is that it is so easy to do wrong which is why only professional flossing has significant effects.

It’s worth people knowing that unless they are flossing on a professional level they aren’t necessarily doing anything to benefit themselves beyond what a mouth rinse would do.

Mouth rinses often contain alcohol or other harsh substances, some of which have a correlation with mouth cancer. By comparison, flossing is comparatively harmless. You can floss wrong, but even that seems better than not flossing.

From experience: I used to rinse AND floss, and the floss always came back with a little bit of organic matter which would’ve otherwise decomposed.

So arguing against floss in praise of mouth rinses doesn’t seem like such an obvious ‘just do it’ idea. It’s probably more nuanced than that. And you can always use the wrong rinse or rinse incorrectly.

It doesn’t prevent cavities by itself but it’s a great addition to good oral hygiene.

If brush my teeth, then I floss, bits of food still come out from between my teeth (they're quite tightly spaced). I don't need an academic study to confirm whether or not the flossing is helpful (unless you're disputing the causal link between food residue and tooth decay)

Im not disputing anything other than when directly compared flossing does not prevent gingivitis, plaque or cavities better than a combined brushing and mouth rinse with regular professional cleanings. Flossing is generally associated with better oral health overall because if you take the time to floss you probably do a better job brushing as well.

The burden is on the flossers to prove the efficacy beyond a secondary link and prove flossing is better in a controlled study. reality doesnt always match what they “feel” it should be.

> The burden is on the flossers to prove the efficacy beyond a secondary link and prove flossing is better in a controlled study

No, you're missing my point - the secondary link is the study of flossing w.r.t. oral health outcomes. The primary (causal) links are whether flossing removes food particles, and whether food particles cause tooth decay (neither of which seems to be under contention here). By just studying whether flossing improves oral hygiene, you're introducing a huge number of variables that are difficult to control for (flossing skill, other hygiene factors like flossing or "rinsing", dietary choices, self reporting errors, etc etc etc).

(edit: to summarize: A causes B, B causes C, but you don't like saying A causes C because people kind of suck at A, and D, E, and F all also cause C which makes studying the relationship between A and C a challenge)

Flossing Is Associated with Improved Oral Health in Older Adults

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7375740/

That’s a self reported study and doesn’t control for the effectiveness of flossing.

It’s generally accepted if you are flossing then generally you brush more often and more completely and in overall better mental and physical health than if you aren’t flossing because if you take the time to floss you are paying attention to your body.

But controlled studies haven’t found floss to be effective as mouth rinses and brushing.

I don't get the criticisms about the effectiveness of flossing. I'm a regular flosser and get all sorts of stuff out from between my teeth that brushing doesn't. Without flossing, that stuff would surely just be stuck there for longer and causing bad breath and whatever else. Maybe other people's teeth aren't as tightly packed or something.

It’s not a criticism of flossing but a criticism for health professionals recommending and putting so much trust in a health procedure that has very little proof it works.

Try to floss one of your molars a couple of hours after you eat and smell it a little bit, you'll be disgusted by what you discover.

Ok, but that’s your feeling and that isn’t linked to any long term health of the mouth in controlled studies. If you brush and rinse, statistically it has a better effect than just brushing and flossing.

I need to floss (or use toothpicks; remember old timers picking their teeth eith wooden splinters?) to remove food bits stuck between my teeth. It's annoying, and if I leave it go for too long the chunk of celery/greens/whatever-fibers start to stink.

I can't speak to flossing in general, just as a specific action that helps me feel better. I still get cavities despite brushing twice a day for two minutes each with fluoride toothpaste, waiting at least 20 minutes to brush after eating (especially after sugar or acids), and sleeping with my mouth closed (starting a few years ago after reading Breath by James Nestor- vertical surgical tape on my lips and sleeping on my back, took about 6 months before I could do it without the tape).

I also stopped bruxating by relaxing my jaw every night before bed and, for the first few weeks of this, waking up frequently to make sure my mouth was still closed and my jaw relaxed.

Most dentists are ignorant and/or scammers

https://www.rd.com/article/how-honest-are-dentists/

I’m not sure you should use anecdata from 1997 to infer “most dentists” are what you’re describing. Certainly there’s bad dentists — my implant is proof of that —, but please show us the data that ‘most’ of them are ignorant or scammers.

My dentist recommended Mi Paste, and it definitely seemed to help. I ordered 2 tubes of it ~5 years ago, and I use it infrequently, but my sensitivity has definitely been helped.

I have thin enamel on my teeth, I guess it's some sort of genetic thing. I wouldn't say it's solved the problem, I still have to be careful about eating too much that's high in acid and salt (Honeycrisp apples and potato chips seem to be foods that particularly trigger my sensitivity). And when the dentist does a cleaning there are definitely areas that are still sensitive.

But, with infrequent use of Mi paste, my day-to-day sensitivity has largely gone away. Maybe more frequent use would make it better, dunno.

FYI: I looked back through my e-mail and it looks like I ordered Mi Paste from Mountainside Medical Equipment (no affiliation): https://www.mountainside-medical.com/collections/mi-paste

My dentist precisely suggested I use it. He's a great and smart young dentist working nearby Padua, Italy.

"(Amazon link)"

I decided to switch to a Novamin formula toothpaste about a year ago which is not available in the US.

Looking across Amazon and ebay, it was impossible to determine fake/counterfeit products from real ones and I never made a purchase. Many sellers had obviously incorrect packaging and labeling and you can read reviews detailing the clear counterfeiting going on.

I would worry about the same thing with your "tooth mousse" or, really, any purchase like this.

I’ve been buying Novamin on Amazon. I just make sure that the Amazon product name/description says Canadian and NOVAMIN, so that if they send the American Fluoride Sensodyne, I can return it. I make sure it ships Amazon Prime and allows free returns. My most recent came from Turkey(!?), rather than Canada, but was packaged properly and tasted identical to the Canadian I’d previously received.