I still think it's unlikely to work.
In simpler terms: tinnitus does not have phase, at least not in the same way a sound wave does.
Funny enough lots of stereo widening magic relies on a physical property of sound not existing when it's in your head.
I've never tried it with headphones, but I suppose even though destructive addition isn't going to happen it might affect things like intended spatial perception.
This technique makes the ringing go away for a while, but it creeps up again after some time. Thankfully, it has always completely gone away after a day or two.
Wearing a Bose QC 35 is so important for me when I go to sleep, because the ANC also blocks out sound and blocks out my tinnitus to some extend. It's a bit of a skill to sleep with them (you can get audio feedback of the ANC mics) but I've mastered it and improved my sleep game a lot because of it.
Normally:
- Tinnitus: 100%
With ANC:
- Tinnitus: 50%
- Bose ANC: 50%
I like the ANC sound more than my tinnitus.
I haven't noticed my tinnitus becoming worse or less worse.
In that case, have you tried something like the Bose Sleepbuds? Same idea, much more comfortable to sleep with.
Also: yep, that's what I mean by it, the white noise sound.
I had tinnitus from loud music for 20+ years prior to that and was always very careful with sound levels because it sucks.
A friend of mine similarly reported that the in ear Apple headphones caused temporary tinnitus when in noise cancellation mode (including transparency mode) but not when those features were off.
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35023808
I remember cooking everything without salt (then buying reduced sodium salt for some time because he missed the taste of it to a certain degree), stop buying sparkling water, how my father tried to cope with the remaining tinnitus after the hearing loss mostly reversed (>95% IIRC), and how it increased and decreased over time.
He still doesn't drink sparkling water, we still cook with reduced salt. If we deviate from this, his tinnitus increases, yet he tries to hide it from us.
Do you need any more citations?
Mom also has tinnitus, but hers is different, not affected by diet. She uses an advanced hearing aid which counters it using sound somehow. She is relieved to a certain point with it.
There are different kinds, reasons. Need to understand each case.
To address the gp point, your original comment would have been fine without the last 2 sentences (unless of course diagnosing tinnitus is your occupation):
> Dad went through acute hearing loss twice. They banned salt during recovery. Your tinnitus is related to blood circulation in the ear. Reduce salt.
The first 2 sentences was you sharing your experience but the last 2 sentences were you making a diagnosis of someone else's condition based off of a comment (rather than a physical exam and/or some lab tests) which I imagine is why @maccard asked for citations.
I have written the comment like that, because the GP provided an example relating his tinnitus to salt intake, and I know that scenario from my dad, so I have written that with confidence. If I was not sure, I'd not write a comment at all. :)
Health and metabolism are serious subjects, and I have more than enough experience to not make any recommendations based on low-confidence information. Otherwise, I suspect that my wife would crucify me with cold blood (she's an MD).
citations let your reader judge your ethos and credibility in the absence of personal knowledge of you.
I've heard ambient pink noise (not in headphones) helps, but anectdotally only.
That's not what this recent book [1] says, at all. In Ducth, but [2] is a translation of the main point in an interview. As far as I'm aware, this guy is rather far away from snake oil. What is true though is that not all audiologists are caught up yet. Which is a bit weird because I already read about multidisciplinary approach working a couple of years ago IIRC. Which does obviously not mean it works for everyone, but also not 'there is no permanent relief'.
[1] Bart Vinck: Tinnitus, een schaduw van geluid
[2] Can tinnitus disappear completely?
"Absolutely, it happens very often. It's to say: we all hear sounds in our heads, only we don't experience them consciously. After all, the brain forgets sounds that are not relevant, just like I don't feel the glasses I'm wearing now.
"Our brain does nothing but sort out stimuli: this is important, that is not important. Logical too, otherwise we would go crazy with all the stimuli constantly coming in.
"My message is not to learn to live with that beep, but to train your brain to classify that sound as harmless, allowing you to forget about it. Feel free to call it an auditory reset of your brain." What does such a treatment look like?
"It has been proven that a multidisciplinary approach works well. Through an intense therapy bath, we try to reset the brain so that that beep or squawk is no longer threatening: patients receive 20 hours of therapy over four days.
"You also have to find other ways to vent tension and take care of yourself. Physiotherapists and osteopaths additionally work on the physical problems. Our patients often suffer from other psychosomatic complaints: they clench their jaws or have tense neck and shoulder muscles.
"Some 96 percent of our patients report afterwards that the impact of the tinnitus has been greatly reduced. Unfortunately, psychotherapy is barely reimbursed."
This is essentially what I do. I've had it tinnitus for some 20 years now. Both ears, a constant high pitched ringing.
Most of the time I honestly don't notice it, even in quiet rooms. As soon as something reminds me about it, or I'm trying to listen for something quiet, or certain high pitch sounds go off (my least favourite is flashbang like effects on TV or in games), it'll come back with a vengeance. So e.g right now because I saw this HN post, it's feeling especially loud.
It'll probably be about an hour before I'll forget to think about it (for want of a better description), and I go back to not noticing it.
It’s always there for me but I usually forget about it and only notice it when something draws my attention to it.
According to an app I’ve used on my phone (Mimi Hearing Test), I have about 14db HL in each ear.
Somewhat related, but I just cannot follow conversations in a noisy environment, like a pub. All the background noise and chatter just washes out the voices of people I’m around.
Anyway, I now bring earplugs every time I go to a show.
The invulnerability of youth.
I used to do sound / PA stuff for live bands for some local events for older teens. One time we realised the kick drum was moving towards the edge of the platform it was on, with every kick. Dumbass that I was, a ran on stage with my trusty roll of duck tape, but without ear protection, and proceeded to duck tape the kick drum legs to the stage to provide extra resistance to movement. While the band was playing. I'd had a little bit of tinnitus before then, but that particular incident made it much worse, unsurprisingly enough.
As for the loud show thing I was already wearing ear plugs back in 1980, never got into the blasting the speakers/headphones, and now I have both significant high frequency hearing attenuation and a 25 year old case of nicely balanced tinnitus. Oh well.
As a small silver lining, my tinnitus now serves as an audible “alarm system”: too much stress in my life? Drank too much coffee? Overdoing it at the gym? All of these will raise the ringing volume and signal me to make changes.
I think this is a good approach to many mental & physical ailments, however it is easier said than done.
The very first time I noticed it at all was during a bout of the flu.
> So e.g right now because I saw this HN post, it's feeling especially loud.
Exactly..
Honestly I didn't think I actually had tinnitus because I don't notice it for weeks or maybe even months at a time, at least not for more than a short moment, although I've have it as long as I can remember. It's not all that loud, but after concentrating on it for a while it's been there constantly and consciously for a good 10min already and it's not going away!
Is this correct and not physiotherapy? Psychotherapy (if send via gp and dianosed) is at least 75% reimbursed if done at a non-contracted practitioner unless you have the shit-insurance, then it's only 50%.
Do you notice any difference when you stretch, and specifically, are looking up and have your head back? I've noticed the ringing stops for me at that point. But I also have a high pitched, 24x7 bi-lateral ringing. I've had it my whole life.
I started to hear it at night when the room was quiet 7 years ago, and then progressively all the time. The first year was hard, I saw a few specialists who told me there was nothing to do about it. In the end I accepted it and now it doesn't bother me anymore.
The more you are upset about it and the worse it is.
I only wish I could be able to hear the silence again, but there are worst things in life. My hypothesis is that it was always there but somehow the filter I had for it stopped working. A bit like eye floaters.
This has been my experience. If I "notice" it, then I hear it until it goes away again. Of course, one thing that causes such notice is reading anything about it. :(
Half of the 200+ post comment section reads like those bottom of the barrel YouTube ads with the AI generated voices: "Try this secret trick to cure your [condition]." It seems to always happen when someone comes here to ask for opinions on disease, food, health or fitness. People, don't go to HN for medical or nutrition advice.
So far, we've already seen: Magic audio tracks, shocking the tongue, steroids, and Ambien, and those are only the top few root subthreads.
One of the things that occasionally freaks people out is that magical talismans, regardless the magic.. actually work - at above placebo! In fact, even fake magical talismans.. work.. at above placebo..
Psychological things are very real and can be measured but can be influenced in funny ways. Something may genuinely fix or help the issue and not actually treat the direct symptom.
However, people still have to live with it, and it causes stress. What are you going to do, nothing, just because there's no treatment that lives up to the standards of hackernews readers?
The statement that there is no permanent relief or treatment is false, and it's delivered with the same confidence as some of the snake oil advice.
My hearing was tested by an Audiologist and my hearing was normal.
The “sound” I observe is high pitched. Using a tone generator I matched it to around 16,500 Hz. Interestingly, if I play that tone I get temporary relief on the order of 2-10 minutes.
As far as I understand my tinnitus is the result of something going wonky with the signal processing in the brain.
If you’re suffering from tinnitus for the first time it’s important to remain calm. There is defiantly an amplifying effect from the psychological aspect of tinnitus. Eventually the body will “habituate” if it does not go away. It took me around 3-6 months to be able to ignore it. During the day I rarely hear it. At night a little more. Playing sounds at a low volume on a Bluetooth speaker helps. For example on Spotify an artist called “TMSOFT” has good stuff. In the day I’ll listen to jazz or lofi.
It’s important to protect your ears. iPhone has a hearing protection feature for headphones and I have it on the lowest setting. I would avoid in-ear headphones. Use hearing protection at concerts.