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Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by beardyw on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @01:53PM (#37835234)
Sorry to sound stupid but what is the point of an emissions defeat device?
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by swatcoder on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @01:59PM (#37835304)
There are aesthetic, performance, financial, and ideological reasons for people to evade many regulatory requirements for cars. For emissions in particular, you may miss out on some vrooom or roar from your car, or you may find yourself tasked to make expensive repairs in order to keep it on the road.

These get are comparatively cheap ways around that.

Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by LazyMans on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @03:42PM (#37836529)
Right. I'm not putting a $1500 catalytic converter on my $1800 prius. Just to have it stolen again.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by brianwawok on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @04:23PM (#37836974)
Yah thats is super obnoxious. I love the prius but if I couldn't park in a locked garage I would likely sell it for something else ASAP.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by bagels on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:02PM (#37835340)
Well, if you do it right, you put it on your race car to make it go faster and only drive it at the race track.

Otherwise, you do it to make your street car faster (and maybe also pollute more), or worse, just generate a bunch of diesel soot to annoy other people with.

Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by leakybit on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:10PM (#37835445)
One motive is that it's cheaper to delete the emission system vs having to replace/repair the unit. Diesels have much more sophisticated emission devices vs gasoline engines, so it's more costly.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by systems_glitch on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @03:00PM (#37836039)
One does not roll coal from e.g. an EGR bypass or delete, though! The only way to get thick clouds of black smoke are too much fuel (turn up the pump) or not oxygen (bag over the air filter in the simplest case).

Many states and localities have "visible emissions" rules, where even if your vehicle doesn't have to pass emissions tests, you can still get pulled and cited for actual smoke. I've never been pulled for it (smoke means you're wasting fuel) so I don't know if it's an inconsequential fine or just not enforced generally.

Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by dieselgate on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @03:41PM (#37836512)
In my lived experience the folks who intentionally want to roll coal are younger guys (something to do in high school) - "matured" diesel owners want little/no smoke for the higher performance
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by systems_glitch on Thursday October 12, 2023 @10:15PM (#37865755)
The few rolling coal around here are midlife crisis types -- I don't think high school kids can afford diesel pickups anymore :P
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by codysc on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @01:55PM (#37835257)
They defeat/bypass smog control systems to either boost power, or literally, just blow clouds of diesel exhaust on demand.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by fgsfds028374 on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:03PM (#37835363)
To asphyxiate cyclists in clouds of toxic soot while you pass them. Speaking from experience
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by Scoundreller on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:58PM (#37836012)
Cancel windshield wiper fluid NOW!
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by skyyler on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @01:56PM (#37835267)
Usually increased performance. ECUs that will happily dump an increased amount of fuel into the engine, for example. High flow exhaust parts that remove catalytic converters, for another example. Both are being sold on eBay.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by linuxftw on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:01PM (#37835339)
There's a multitude or purposes. Improved power being one, improved reliability being another. Modern diesel emissions equipment fails regularly, often in hard to diagnose and repair ways.

If you spent $100k on a truck, and you could spend $2k more to 'delete' some emissions equipment to prevent $10k+ worth of repairs in the future, would you do it?

Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by WirelessGigabit on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:12PM (#37835471)
It's not on you to decide that I get to breathe in carcinogens.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by Osiris on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:37PM (#37835758)
As a motorcycle rider, these people that dump black smoke when they accelerate are just pumping poison straight into my lungs. I hate it so much because there’s nothing I can do about it.

At least cars have cabin air filters. I get to suck it straight in unfiltered.

Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by numtel on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:48PM (#37835911)
As a car driver without a cabin air filter, (are cabin air filters even effective against exhaust gases?) both diesel trucks and motorcycles require me to close my windows and vents because of the smell.

At least cars have smog equipment to reduce the emissions. Motorcycles mostly don't.

Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by dharmab on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @04:39PM (#37837172)
Most motorcycles made from 2017 onward have factory emissions equipment with cleanliness similar to cars (due to the Euro5 regulations from that year forward). Since most bikes have one configuration globally, even US models implemented Euro5.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by devit on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @04:31PM (#37837075)
You could wear an FFP2 or FFP3 mask with a valve.
[dead]
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by doubled112 on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:07PM (#37835403)
It isn't just 100K trucks.

I drive a 2013 VW diesel, and this year the warranty covered an EGR and a DPF, which is exactly the kind of thing deletes remove from the vehicle.

That's about $6K in work on a vehicle I paid $14K for a couple of years ago.

Next time, when it is out of warranty, should I take the car to the junk yard? Or delete them and never have another issue? Which is really better for the planet?

Before anybody asks, no I do NOT want to roll coal. It's stupid and obnoxious. You can put a proper tune on a car and not have that issue. Soot is unburnt fuel, which means wasted fuel. You turned it up too high.

Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by linuxftw on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:41PM (#37835805)
You're lucky it was under warranty (I'm assuming it's an extended warranty). Most manufacturers are only covering those items for 36 months.

Imagine if the warranty was a federal minimum 300k miles/20 years. I bet they would design the components so the labor time is zero to replace them.

Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by doubled112 on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @06:48PM (#37838757)
Extended warranty.

When Dieselgate was happening, my understanding is that you were offered a couple of options.

One was to sell back the car. The other was to keep the car, do the fix, and accept an extra 10(?) years of fairly comprehensive warranty. It transferred ownership, which made them fairly attractive as a used car, which is why I have one.

Has saved me literal thousands at this point, but after owning it a couple of years, I understand why everybody was happy to sell them back. They're junk, and the dealership experience leaves something to be desired too.

Some of these warranty claims have had me running back and forth to the dealership. My record is 7 trips before they got it right.

Another dealership left it spraying fuel all over the engine bay. That was a good time.

Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by strbean on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:06PM (#37835393)
Seems likely they are talking about semi trucks, not pickups.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by linuxftw on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:47PM (#37835896)
Well, a 3500 diesel is all of $100k today (if you're getting 4 door, dually). I personally wouldn't spend that kind of cash unless I needed such a thing (like, to pay my bills with, not pull an RV or something). And if I was paying my bills with it, I'd make sure I keep it one the road, one way or the other.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by Scoundreller on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @02:57PM (#37836001)
Sometimes to avoid costlier mechanical work like changing O2 sensors, where often cars still give a check-engine-light if you use an aftermarket one (dunno why the aftermarket ones are so poor that they cause emissions problems or if the car’s computer was deliberately/unintentionally so sensitive to force people onto OEM parts).
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by ewagsjr on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @06:44PM (#37838702)
Oh my gosh, I've had to run a new wire for an O2 sensor because mine gave out and it was a PITA but I couldn't afford the labor at the time and it was putting my car in limp mode which disabled cruise control. so not only was it $150 sensor, but also 5 freaking hours of me watching youtube and get cuts on my hands underneath a car.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by bombcar on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @08:40PM (#37839625)
Limp mode is so annoying. “Car can go to 3k rpm no more.”
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by dieselgate on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @03:27PM (#37836356)
Often times it's the removal of a complicated system that is failure prone - less filters to get clogged and stuff like that.

Edit: people generally don't do things for the "sole purpose of polluting more" it's often functional. Many diesel drivers don't like others who roll coal as the image is bad in general - heavy equipment will often produce black smoke because the engine is being worked for a "function" and it's literally just being given fuel.

Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by bsagdiyev on Wednesday October 11, 2023 @06:51AM (#37842925)
This is correct. One of my two modified cars came from CA at some point and had emissions equipment that was standard there but not on 48 state cars. Removal of it didn't impact emissions and the car actually runs cleaner modified than it did when bone stock. But you see a lot of people here who just assume modified == killing baby penguins with emissions or something. Trust me even the car guys don't like the straight piped VQ revving at the car meets.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by codexb on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @04:55PM (#37837322)
There are many examples. Many SUV's in the US these days are only able to meet emissions requirements by automatically turning off the engine at stoplights or whenever the car comes to a stop. Many people find it annoying because there's a delay when you press the accelerator to go and then you press harder and the car then jumps. Most cars allow you to disable it, but you have to do it every time after you turn the car on. No one likes it. You can sometimes modify the car or access hidden computer settings to disable the setting. Technically, it's illegal to do.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by testfoobar on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @05:45PM (#37838026)
IMHO such start/stop is a fraudulent way to meet MPG targets. Almost everyone I know presses the button to turn off the feature the moment they start their car.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by tekla on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @08:23PM (#37839518)
Why the hell would you do that.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by bombcar on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @08:38PM (#37839617)
Because in a non hybrid there is a very noticeable delay as the engine starts.

I remember turning it off in Europe because trying to start from a dead stop with the engine off in a stick shift is a whole new world of fun I didn’t need.

Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by winrid on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @10:13PM (#37840144)
If it's hot and you want your AC to keep running. Or if the baby in the back seat cries once the vibration from the engine stops :)
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by p1mrx on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @09:11PM (#37839813)
That problem can be solved using a sufficiently large electric motor. More people would demand hybrid SUVs if they understood the benefits.
Re:US Sues eBay for Allowing Sale of More Than 300k Emission... by codexb on Wednesday October 11, 2023 @04:35PM (#37849930)
Unlikely. This isn’t a problem of education. The primary benefit of hybrids is fuel efficiency. People who buy large SUVs have already decided that fuel efficiency is not a high priority.