News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by growse on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:17AM (#37833176)
You go through.... account recovery?

Like if you lose your password today?

Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by lopis on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:20AM (#37833217)
Ah right, account recovery. The one that tells me the only way to sign in to my old Google account is to use a phone that no longer exists.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by tshaddox on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:28AM (#37833340)
What’s the standard then? Should it be possible to recover your account without possessing any evidence whatsoever that you are the person you say you are?
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by kube-system on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:38AM (#37833510)
Other businesses have humans on staff which will verify your identity documents. Google simply chooses not to do this, because it is expensive, and their "users" are not their customers.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by threatofrain on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:46AM (#37833648)
Right, then you can just pay for Google's rather affordable non-free business version. Then you'll get reasonable support, well-reputed support.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by cube00 on Wednesday October 11, 2023 @03:29AM (#37841873)
I get a call from Google One Support. I explain the situation. They tell me to go to g.co/recover to recover my account (I already did this on my own). Same thing happens as before - same two options are given.

Then I'm told Google has a very strict security policy, and accounts cannot be changed in any way by support. So going through the recovery process is the ONLY way back into my account. So the call ends with them saying "I'm so sorry I can't help you." [1]

[1]: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/when-you-get-locked-out-your-...

Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by px43 on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:47AM (#37833667)
They have offered this since 2017, in response to the Podesta email hack. It's free, but it's not the default, because traveling to a Google site is prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of their users.

https://landing.google.com/advancedprotection

Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by kube-system on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @12:04PM (#37833937)
Is there something there that explains how the recovery process is different? The only thing I see in the FAQ is somewhere that they link to the normal account recovery page, and say that you'd have to order another hardware token.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by lxgr on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @03:53PM (#37836641)
That is not without risk either:

Many more people have a copy of my passport than have access to my Yubikey or recovery phone number.

Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by kube-system on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @07:45PM (#37839225)
Yes, remotely accepting a copy of an identity document from the other end of a wire is not a good authentication method. That's because they're not intended for remote digital authentication. Photo IDs are intended to be validated in-person, using the original document, and the photo visually compared to the person holding it.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by soulofmischief on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:32AM (#37833419)
I'm willing to bet Google already has a frighteningly accurate ability to determine whether I am associated with or own a particular account.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by Macha on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @12:50PM (#37834501)
I've been locked permanently out of a (thankfully tertiary) Gmail account because their ML didn't like that I logged in from my new house. The option was to accept a push notification to a long dead and wiped phone.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by TheNewsIsHere on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @12:59PM (#37834612)
Their state handling for the push notification based MFA factors is _atrocious_. I have had to “re-delete” a long wiped phone (or two) multiple times from more than one account. It seems to have finally stuck in the past year, but I’m suspicious that one day it could bite me in the ass.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by shinycode on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:49AM (#37833702)
If you travel in an other country and loose your phone or the phone gets stolen. How can you log into Gmail from anything else if you need access to travel or anything else ? Like receiving a confirmation of identity by email from the bank or another service ?
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by mr_mitm on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @03:40PM (#37836508)
You can't, that's the point.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by gomox on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @07:40PM (#37839185)
Given your response you should read up on the reality of Google Account recovery, because the usual horror story is not that you have "no evidence whatsoever" but more like "I have all the evidence in the world including recovery codes, TOTP backups and a valid password and somehow I'm still locked out".
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by Eumenes on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:28AM (#37833352)
Google has notoriously horrible customer service, or none at all ... A Google Domains issue took me months to resolve, I couldn't contact a human.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by jasonjayr on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:23AM (#37833269)
or to fax/email/send in government identity documents.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by lxgr on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @03:56PM (#37836677)
Despite what many companies seem to believe, looking at a copy of somebody's identification presented remotely documents does not constitute identity verification.

Photo ID is (relatively) secure in exactly one use case: Verifying that a person standing in front of you is who they claim to be. Everything else is inane pseudo-security.

Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by lopis on Wednesday October 11, 2023 @12:40PM (#37846749)
No, have a Google account that is locked forever without recourse. Even though I have email forwarding setup in that account to my main one.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by ses1984 on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:19AM (#37833195)
If you can recover an account without the passkey, how much security is it really adding?
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:23AM (#37833270)
Depends on the recovery mechanism. Providing a government credential with a live selfie is the gold standard. If a company doesn't support that, they're being cheap at the cost of security (you can perform such an identity proof for ~$1-2/per successful proof through a vendor like Stripe Identity or ID.me).

Passkeys solves for digital identity compromise (credential theft or stuffing/spraying), but you must rely on other mechanisms (such as a I mention above) if you want to elevate identity assurance higher in the event of credential loss.

(consumer IAM is a component of my work at a fintech; auth/creds security, passkey rollout, high identity confidence when an account is recovered, etc)

Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by vel0city on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @10:38PM (#37840285)
How do I actually give them my real government document with it's physical security features through the internet? Just take a grainy photo of it? Really secure!
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by grotorea on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:24AM (#37833294)
It at least avoids the user being phished or being compromised by reusing passwords.

But it seems in this case the account recovery is just using the password so the passkey is mostly convenience and maybe Google trying to move things away from passwords more than a complete change.

Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by echelon on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:26AM (#37833320)
> maybe Google trying to move things away from passwords more than a complete change

Google wants to be a gateway to everything else you do.

The next step is to get other platforms to accept Google passwordless auth.

Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by kube-system on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:44AM (#37833615)
That depends entirely on how rigorous the recovery process is.
Re:Google announces passwordless by default: Make the switch... by throwawayqqq11 on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @11:23AM (#37833258)
And then? get asked for a unique pw that you havent typed for ages or a duplicate pw that you use for everything?