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Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by jamesaurichs on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @11:37PM (#37669712)
Xi is losing it everywhere;

- internal purging of military senior officials. 5 out of the 7 senior officials are now missing in action. https://www.newsweek.com/china-defence-minister-li-shangfu-m.... Very similar to Mao Zedong's purging of his generals https://www.hoover.org/research/lin-biao-incident-and-people.... China has had to transfer generals from airforce and army to head up missile force, because so many generals in the missile forces were purged.

- china's export drop 4th straight month https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/06/business/china-exports-au...

- the great flooding of northeast farmland this summer wiped out 1/3 of China's grain production. in order to mitigate the flooding of Beijing, they instead flooded provinces next to Beijing, which incidentally housed many military forces. Those forces were destroyed without warning.

- another big real estate developer, sunac, filed for bankruptcy https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/19/economy/china-sunac-ny-bankru....

- the Hangzhou asian games was a massive failure, attended by no major heads from developed countries. Cost $30 billion, while its local governments are so desperate for money, they are raiding temples

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by isaacfung on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @11:49PM (#37669826)
Can you provide some sources about the flood destroying military forces and Hangzhou government raiding temples?

About Huawei stores being empty, some seems pretty crowded at least on the first day. https://youtu.be/YFeE2xHQVRI?si=2-tqnqXj8aF8srN6

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by oreally on Tuesday September 26, 2023 @11:59PM (#37669918)
I mean it isn't the first time that narratives about China's collapse have surfaced; they've been going on since the 2000s. Take anything you read about China on western boards with a pinch of salt; vice versa for the other side too.
Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by isaacfung on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @12:14AM (#37670019)
I know. I live in Hong Kong. Some of these are worrying but a few of them seem questionable. From what I can find, the previous asian games opening also wasn't attended by many world leaders. It's not Olympic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Asian_Games_opening_cer...
Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by AussieWog93 on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @12:09AM (#37669985)
It's the first time we've had some serious quantitative data behind it, though.

There are good indicators that an economic stagnation or recession are coming, and that could potentially hurt the CCP long term.

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by oreally on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @12:16AM (#37670039)
What are you talking about? Data has been collected since they opened up, enough for people to be writing books on it like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coming_Collapse_of_China

Now are you going to say the data collected before is unreliable somehow and this time it's reliable?

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by Animats on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @02:24AM (#37670899)
China had a real estate bubble fueled by overbuilding, and it collapsed. Nobody is quite sure what happens after that. The economic system is so different that the aftereffects aren't clear.
Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by defrost on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @02:32AM (#37670951)
I can't find the paper ATM - but this was discussed by an Australian group (ASPI adjacent) tasked with China watching eight years (? ish ?) ago .. and as I recall it played out more or less as they predicted.

China central planning pushed for and encouraged 'over buiding' for efficiency and surplus, doing bulk deals on concrete, streamlining steel creation from iron ore, etc.

If you put aside the traditional western stock market view of companies trading in the building domain (which grew and collapsed) and look at it as state planning for bulk efficiences of scale it perhaps makes more sense.

Right now it makes sense to look at what the next five to ten year state backed push will be as we might anticipate more "one foot in the free market" bubble like growth there.

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by jamesaurichs on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @12:12AM (#37670005)
I'm sure you're smarter than Cathie Wood, who has completely exited Ark investment out of China. Or smarter than Apple, who is moving 50% production to India by 2027. Or smarter than Carrefour, which closed all of their 150 Chinese stores this year.

Oh wait, probably not.

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by oreally on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @12:19AM (#37670059)
Imagine having such a superiority complex thinking that China's survival hinges entirely on western investment and graces. That's some jingoism right there.
Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by jamesaurichs on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @12:28AM (#37670136)
Yeah, I'm sorry to break a nationalist's heart. China needs foreign investment to survive, otherwise its 22% youth unemployment rate, 3 of its biggest real estate companies being bankrupt, local government's $12 trillion debt, 600M citizens on $140/month income will just get worse.

But those investments are now gone forever.

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by oreally on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @01:01AM (#37670378)
Nah I'm no nationalist. Just trying to provide balanced views.

> But those investments are now gone forever.

Can bet there will still be investors coming in to fill the void.

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by hnfong on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @01:23AM (#37670533)
I don't know about the others, but I'd contest the claim about Cathie Wood.
Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by dang on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @01:27AM (#37670560)
We've banned this account because it's consistently been breaking the HN guidelines. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email [email protected] and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. That means, among other things, using HN for curious conversation rather than ideological battle.

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by idrios on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @01:22AM (#37670528)
Marriages being down in 2022 is pretty easily explainable as a result of the strict lockdowns that weren't lifted until late December.
Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by miguelazo on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @01:45AM (#37670650)
Yeah, I’ve seen these stories before. And all from the usual suspects. Quick, someone find the tweet with the 10 Economist magazine covers about China collapsing. You know, the ones that used to come out every 5 years and now come out every year.

Someone could easily cherry pick stories about the US and make the same argument. Unsustainable debt, rampant homelessness and addiction, lifespan and healthspan plummeting, birth rates dropping, etc.

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by Animats on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @02:32AM (#37670950)
There's an observation in "How Asia Works", by Joe Studwell that all the successful Asian countries grew at about 10% per year as they industrialized, because you can do that by copying the developed world and exporting while paying low wages. Once they caught up, growth dropped to about 5%, because then you have to do something new and pay people more. Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. all followed that path. Countries can screw up and do much worse - Cambodia, North Korea, etc. China is now about at the point where the growth rate drops to 5%. This is not a disaster.
Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by AstralStorm on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @07:47AM (#37673294)
It is a disaster but not for the Chinese. The capitalists elsewhere won't have such cheap labor that's passably educated and has ready access to infrastructure.

Africa and South America would take major investing to bring up to that point.

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by contrarian1234 on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @02:25AM (#37670905)
Very anecdotal.. But I just spent a couple of weeks in Sichuan for the first time since the pandemic. It felt much more vibrant and wealthy than 5 years ago. People dress better, no more half empty shopping malls, much more vibrant street food scene. I went to some designer fashion mall and they had more trendy brands than I've seen in Seoul or Taipei

Huawei seems to be doing well domestically somehow. Way too many store front that aren't too busy.. But they have their own car brand now that seems to be selling well. I'd say half the cars in the street were some domestic electric car brand. I'd guess gasoline cars will be phased out soon

I kept reading about how devastated the country was by the pandemic - but what I saw was a ton of progress. Talking to locals though, they didn't seem to really percieve the difference :)

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by jesterson on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @02:37AM (#37670983)
Wow, you really should stop using internet. Most of it is absolute bs
Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by ranguna on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @04:23AM (#37671709)
Here's a thought, maybe all those news are "fake news"?

The original article talks about China misinformation in Taiwan. Maybe western society is running the same thing to China. Like like they did for North Korea.

Remember the "people can only get certain types of haircuts in North Korea"? Fake news, and I believed it at the time. So now I'm always sceptical on what I read from western news talking about Asian countries.

Here's an interesting satire about this https://youtu.be/2BO83Ig-E8E?si=MziI90I7xP5W4g-m

Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by glimshe on Wednesday September 27, 2023 @07:48AM (#37673296)
Western "society" can't do anything because it's not a uniform entity. We're a group of individuals who can post ideas and theories in forums like Hacker News or anywhere else. Perhaps you can say that about mainstream media, having in mind that the average person doesn't care too much about what happens inside China or Asia, unless if it's killing jobs in the West.
Re:China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation by ranguna on Thursday September 28, 2023 @01:38AM (#37685640)
Although what you said makes since in principle, there's a lot of people who "fell" for the hair cut "news" and many other ones.