According to industry analyses, Russia accounts for about 35 percent of
global cybercrime revenue, or between $2.5 and $3.7 billion. That’s wildly
out of proportion with the country’s share of the global information
technology market (which is around 1 percent).
It's not that Russians are inherently cybercriminals, but the country does seem to be currently suffering from conditions that help it foster.
Just to point to a couple of facts:-
1. From the same article:
"Why does every hacking and cyberscam story – real or fictional – seem to have a Russia connection?
In part, it is prejudice and laziness. The stereotype of the Russian hacker has become such a common media trope that it gets recycled again and again. It also offers a handy update for those looking for new ways to perpetuate the ‘Russian threat.’"
2. Following article line on FSB - anyone knows who hacked PCs of Iran nuke facility? If we judge on who had a reason - US - we shall assume that US have the same or even better hacker team than Russia [very clever OS hack that resulted in hardware malfunction at the nuke plant, thus significantly reducing its output - was covered in 2011].
3. I suspect that most of 'industry analysis' is funded by government agencies, directly or indirectly. So if the conclusion of 'industry analysis' would be that US accounts for 35 or 65 percent of global cybercrime revenue, then the next question would be - what the hell are the various government agencies doing and how effective do they spend government/taxpayers' money?
4. From the same article:
"However, a more basic answer is that a disproportionate number of Russians have worldclass math and computers skills, yet not the kind of jobs to use them legitimately. Although many firms in the industry are based in Russia, or else hire Russians, there is a pool of skilled but under-employed programmers who embrace the hacker world for fun, out of disillusion, or for profit."
Anyone can show me a skilled but under-employed programmer in Russia?
"Skilled but under-emplored programmer in Russia" is like Bigfoot [also known as sasquatch] - everyone heard about him/her, but noone saw. It is a legend...
But of course there are russians, americans, germans, brits, and other nations, which do quite some harm. I just do not think there is a legitimate way to define the winner.
Sorry for off-topic rambling, probably due to habit of enjoying fact-based debate, which resulted from my days in finance ;-))
While my comment was poorly worded, statistically the majority of large botnets like Coreflood, Storm, BredoLab, Rustock, Kelihos are of Russian origin. Even the botnet we are discussing was first seen in Russia.
To comment on a couple of your points
2 - With Stuxnet, I think everyone agrees that US/Israel is to blame. The Russian connection is made because aside from the Iranians, the Russians are the only ones that had access to the facility, and they built the place. A Russian spy is a more likely culprit than a US-Iranian scientist double-agent sabotaging his own facility with results that could kill all of his co-workers.
4- No-one is talking under-employed. These criminals make more money than they ever would at any other job selling access to their botnet, advertising, spamming, installing fake virus software, stealing credit cards, etc. etc.
This gives rise to entities like the Russian Business Network (RBN)
Anyway, I meant no offense, if only americans or brits were clever enough to create a similar profile or stereotype, but I think some script kids guessing passwords pales in comparison to outsmarting the worlds largest software vendors and security researchers.
You are correct on #4. I've heard some stories about hrackers storing piles of cash under the couch [this case was in Ukraine], made from cracking banks/ATMs. Definitely, black activities are much more profitable. But I do not think that [in real life] those that crack get most of the money, with few exceptions. Biggest pile usually goes to those who organize or cover (underworld Board/CEO equivalent).
However, the start-up fever, which started in Russia appr. 1-1.5 years ago, is getting traction, as well as tech industry. This provides more opportunities and better risk/reward ratio and shall result in that more and more people will be moving to bright side.
And yep, the smart brain has no nationality.
Well, Group-IB (a Russian computer security company) seems to disagree:
In Russia the situation is additionally worsen by a great amount of
technical universities graduates and by unstable home economy
situation as the result of which the mentioned specialists cannot
find highly paid legal income.
I don't know where they get the data from, though.
But of course there are russians, americans, germans, brits, and other nations, which do quite some harm. I just do not think there is a legitimate way to define the winner.
Sure, it's still a prejudice, I was just pointing out it's not completely irrational.
Pretty good observation. I think most people are operating on 10-12 year old data when they think that. They think "fall of the Soviet Union" with now hungry scientists slowly turning to the dark side to become less hungry mad scientists who will inflict pain and suffering upon us all.
I recall that in 1997-1998, when I was helping Coca-Cola establish plant in Vladivostok (Far East near Japan, 0.5 mil population), some people were concerned to go there because of tigers and bears wandering in the streets...
To be fair I'm sure this only represents a minority of the people in these countries but perhaps it is just that it is more lucrative there.
I imagine it's quite hard to earn a decent living in the west just by breaking into a few servers and sending out a bit of spam, in Russia it probably looks like an attractive get rich quick for anyone with tech skills.
It is attractive. But again this is about risk/reward ratio. With increase of risk/complexity and other, legal, opportunities more people shall switch... I think...
See also: 419 boys
It's not just Russia.
That article doesn't even provide enough information to say that if you had to pick a single country of origin then it's more likely to be Russia than anywhere else.
In terms of generalising based on that sort of thing though, would you similarly justify a suggestion that a drug deal was down to a young black male on the grounds that proportionately young black males in the USA are more likely to be convicted of such offences than young white males? Or would you see that as a sweeping and unhelpful generalisation that tars a whole group based on the activities of a minority?
If it's based on the current social or economical situation of Russia, it's prejudice, but not racism. Remember that Russians are "citizens of Russia", not a particular ethnic group.
I observe however that their is an emergent definition of 'racism' which is quite a bit more broad than yours.
Basically it is this "Assuming specific or stereotypical attributes about an an individual or group, based on that individual or group's membership in a definable group."
This removes the typical restriction that it involve 'race specific traits' so things like 'Bankers are greedy criminals' or 'Christians are fascists' get reflected back as variations on the 'racist' meme. When ever that group membership nominally includes race it's considered racist by people who share that racial attribute.
Even the discussion we're having (and as an operations guy I see a lot of bad actors whose IPs originate in countries that were former parts of the USSR) we have to be careful to disentangle accusations of people of a region being bad, and regions which host infrastructure which is available to everyone, being used for bad. The Internet does many things and one of those things is create 'telecommuting criminals' who may easily be living in New Hampshire but hosting their C&C servers at a friendly ISP or EC2 equivalent in the Ukraine.
[edit typos]
I presume it is inherently and practically more difficult to investigate identity of someone renting servers in US vs Russia, Ukraine or China, in part because of language, legal system and political differences.
It's not racism to recognize these statistical facts. Racism is when we have prejudice based on them. It's when we slander an entire ethnic group or nation of origin based on the actions of a few of them. This is not justified just because there is more cybercrime in Russia than elsewhere: there is cybercrime everywhere, and the vast majority of Russians are not cybercriminals.
It's racism to say we "run the risk of russians" when we mean we run the risk of malevolant cybercriminals. The two terms are not interchangeable. We don't say you "run the risk of blacks" when we mean you might get mugged in downtown LA even if we believe that more muggings in downtown LA come from blacks than other ethnic groups, nor do we say you "run the risk of whites" when we mean you might get killed by a serial killer as you're walking to your car in an empty garage at night, even if we think perpetrators of such crimes are more likely white than anything else.
I think your examples are clear prejudice (and no, I wouldn't say them), but they may or may not be racism.
The UN's definition of racial descrimination:
"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."
I don't know what the US legal definition is (though I'm guessing it's the similar) but in the UK discrimination based on country of origin would count as racism.
As a brit, I fully appreciate and understand why some people in the world hate all britons. We've done some bad things as a nation in recent years and people have a right to tar us all with the same brush. I understand why it would be unsafe for me to walk the streets of Kabul or Baghdad. If any brit has a problem with the way other people look at them, it's their job as a citizen in a democracy to affect the change they want to see in people's attitude towards this country and it's people.
Except when it's the French. There's no pleasing those cheese eating surrender monkeys.
Well that's cute, but I disagree. I'm Dutch, we've done some rather bad things in our colonial times, yet it is not okay for Indonesians or South Africans to hate all Dutch. Similarly it is NOT okay for Dutch people to hate all Germans just because they invaded us in 40-45 (WW2), because they took our bikes or because they tend to defeat us in international soccer games.
> If any brit has a problem with the way other people look at them, it's their job as a citizen in a democracy to affect the change they want to see in people's attitude towards this country and it's people.
I'd agree with you on that point if only you weren't highly overestimating the level of influence "any Brit" has on these matters, compared to how much "some Brits" have.
Same for any democracy. Even those mythical ones that work. I'm responsible for my own actions, not for those of some bigshot that claims to represent "me" (one individual in a group of several million of that claim).
If you feel that's not right or self-centred and I should do better, I'll try to take responsibility for my own actions extra hard, but I refuse to take on those of some idiot I hardly have any control over. Best I can do with my little vote is to not vote for Geert Wilders--but as you may or may not have noticed, it didn't help much. So am I to feel responsible for that turdmongler? Fuck no! Yet will I discreetly defecate in the kitchen or bathroom sink of anyone I encounter that appears to subscribe to Wilders' moronic ideas? You can count on it, and that's all the responsibility I will take.
> Except when it's the French. There's no pleasing those cheese eating surrender monkeys.
hur hur hur :-/
I'm all for a bit more humorous light-hearted poking on HN, but I'd rather do without crap like this. Made it real hard to read The Black Swan when Taleb continuously did the same, too.
Pointing to possible misuse of race/nationality angle?
I do not think so.
Re > it's their job as a citizen in a democracy to affect the change they want to see in people's attitude towards this country and it's people.
I believe that my job is to take care of my family and myself, because noone else, and no any government, will do this.
25% have been Chinese (or linked to Chinese hackers, but using distributed hosting of hijacked servers around the world)
5% have been US-based.
10% have been Indian.
10% have been "other", including Canada/Mexico/Latin America, Africa, and Western Europe (like the German(?) Conficker worm)
A full 50% have been linked to the Russian Federation (and other former Soviet countries).
Why is this? Everyone has their theories, but mine is the combination of
1. Russia (and Eastern Europe) is a huge area.
2. Russian mafia really ramped up their cybercrime efforts after 1991 when the Soviet Union was retired.
3. Enforcement of cybercrime laws in Russia is lacking in comparison to Western nations, for various reasons.
Many other countries, including the US, have their own hackers and cybercrime groups. China and Russia are much, much more effective, though, and it's fashionable to hate on "commies" in the Western media.
I agree that external environment provided much more fertile ground for criminal activities [incl tech] in former USSR.
The key words are "fashionable" and "Western media". We all can observe the influence of media on people's perceptions of events, countries, nationalities...
I may have been unclear and reading up I may have misused the word - can pejorative apply to a sentence or just to a word or phrase?
"The W32.Sality family of threats has been around for some time as the first versions surfaced in 2003 and may have originated in Russia"
http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=...
The UN's definition of racial descrimination:
"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."
This happens in other parts of the world, too, of course. I once asked a girl in college if she was from India; she gave me a hateful death stare and coldly declared that she was from Bangladesh.
There certainly are many instances of people hating ethnicities very disimilar form them, but that happens after people from different parts of the world migrate close to each other.
I suspect that proximity has a great deal more to do with it than similarity. If your neighbor is actually significantly different than you (ugh, the weird smells from the strange food those people eat!) I would think it makes it even worse.
* Russians (russkiye), an ethnic group of the East Slavic peoples, primarily living in Russia and neighboring countries (where they are also known as Ruthenians or by other names)
</wikipedia>
Close enough?
Since Sergey Brin and Mila Yovovich are "russians", do you imply that Google and Hollywood are part of this botnet?
The most famous hacker is Kevin Mitnick [american] and most recent hackers charged/arrested by FBI are also american citizens.
Why don't you change "russians" to "americans"? Or may be "new_zealanders" [Kim dot com]? Or may be "brits" [UK kid, extradicted recently to US on copyright violation charges].
If you would change to "americans", I just wonder whether some people will feel offended and how many?