News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by bacchusracine on Thursday September 21, 2023 @11:54AM (#37599521)
Maybe if Martin would quit playing with Asterisk trophies and politics and actually finish Game of Thrones people wouldn't be so keen to have an AI write prequels and sequels....
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by jncfhnb on Thursday September 21, 2023 @11:55AM (#37599550)
> The lawsuit cites specific ChatGPT searches for each author, such as one for Martin that alleges the program generated “an infringing, unauthorized, and detailed outline for a prequel” to “A Game of Thrones” that was titled “A Dawn of Direwolves” and used “the same characters from Martin’s existing books in the series “A Song of Ice and Fire.”

Selling this work would be copyright infringement. There’s no ambiguity there.

Generating it would not.

Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by morsch on Thursday September 21, 2023 @12:40PM (#37600239)
Okay, does OpenAI sending you this work as part of your paid ChatGPT subscription constitute selling?
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by jncfhnb on Thursday September 21, 2023 @12:52PM (#37600405)
It might constitute selling. But not in a way that likely violates copyright. See adjacent reply to the same question.
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by lunarimiso on Thursday September 21, 2023 @04:23PM (#37603759)
Dont you have to directly affect or compete with someone or something for it to constitute copyright?
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by jncfhnb on Thursday September 21, 2023 @04:42PM (#37604017)
That’s trademark
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by bko on Thursday September 21, 2023 @12:06PM (#37599712)
The gpt copyright infringement is strangely divided a lot of tech workers.

Generally people that are against overly broad patents and other copyrights should be dismissive of copyright claims of artists complaining about gpt. I remember Oracle being mocked for suing google over 9 lines of fairly generic code. Or Tiffany trademarking a color.

But now because Microsoft stands to benefit people are very concerned about "stolen" work. The funny thing is that the overall net benefit would be a lot greater from LLMs as opposed to someone not being able to use a certain color.

The biggest irony is that openai will obv prevail regardless. They'll pay their fines and work with regulators. The only thing that will be hurt will be competitors or open source projects

Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by morsch on Thursday September 21, 2023 @12:44PM (#37600300)
It's just annoying that after decades of copyright-maximalist public policy and corporate PR, it's now time for a sensible application of copyright when it comes to this specific issue.
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by polishdude20 on Thursday September 21, 2023 @12:11PM (#37599793)
Exactly. Think of it like a friend pitching you a new book idea or coming up with one on the spot. Selling the work is what should be infringement.
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by nomel on Thursday September 21, 2023 @12:02PM (#37599655)
Does the subscription count at all, towards “selling”?
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by jncfhnb on Thursday September 21, 2023 @12:49PM (#37600369)
Seems unlikely. You can hire someone to write you stuff that violates copyright, like fanfiction. It is unlikely that any court would find that the purpose / character of that use is commercial in nature; nor that the effect of creating it would have any effect on the potential market for the original.

Even if someone is generating a new novel for themselves to read every day, it doesn’t seem likely to pass those tests so long as they are not distributing it.

Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by musicale on Friday September 22, 2023 @03:22AM (#37608954)
> selling this work would be copyright infringement. There’s no ambiguity there.

>Generating it would not.

Are you sure about that? My understanding is that under US copyright law the copyright owner has the exclusive right "to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work."

Which is to say, a derivative work - which this would certainly be - would legally still be infringing even if it were not distributed.

Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by jncfhnb on Friday September 22, 2023 @10:47AM (#37612765)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/107

It’s fair use though. You would have an extremely difficult time arguing that a piece of generated art for just yourself passes muster on:

> the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

Because the effect of the use on potential market is just 1 sale and it’s not even clear that there’s a diminishing impact on the actual rights holder for that guy.

Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by musicale on Saturday September 23, 2023 @04:26PM (#37627162)
I concur that fair use could be an effective defense against infringement claims, though the section you are referring mentions distribution/copying specifically (though it refers to other sections which apply to adaptation.)

Regardless, the law itself seems clear that the right to adaptation is exclusive independent of distribution.

The fair use arguments are interesting, considering:

- AI businesses are commercial enterprises

- Many works were digested in their entirety by LLM systems

- If anyone can generate their own version of GoT with an AI system, does it diminish the market for the original?

Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by jncfhnb on Saturday September 23, 2023 @10:22PM (#37629587)
It seems extremely unlikely that a company could successfully argue people writing fanfics for just themselves with the aid of an AI is sufficient to cause any harm to a business. The scale is minuscule. It’s likely not a substitute either.
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by jaygray0919 on Thursday September 21, 2023 @12:24PM (#37599991)
Take-down notices may be the next step in this process
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by CharlesW on Thursday September 21, 2023 @12:31PM (#37600101)
These are my favorite threads on HN right now.

In the threads, most comments dismiss the value of creators' works in building the billion-dollar businesses developing these increasingly-powerful content laundering machines, based almost exclusively on content theft.

Simultaneously, we're 10 years away from a world where staff "software engineers" go the way of human computers¹, replaced by product and marketing folks and maybe a system architect.

To those commenters, I say: I hope y'all have a Plan B.

¹ https://www.history.com/news/human-computers-women-at-nasa

Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by artninja1988 on Thursday September 21, 2023 @12:54PM (#37600436)
>Simultaneously, we're 10 years away from a world where staff "software engineers" go the way of human computers¹ Where's the source that this is going to happen?
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by BudaDude on Thursday September 21, 2023 @01:15PM (#37600761)
Fear mongering.

Software engineering will change but it will not be gone. Those who learn how to use these tools will become more valuable than those who don't. Same with every profession.

Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by n6242 on Thursday September 21, 2023 @02:33PM (#37601969)
I do have a plan B. The software engineer, the marketing guy and the maybe system architect of 10 years in the future are all the same person: me using AI tools.
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by JuanPosadas on Thursday September 21, 2023 @05:11PM (#37604415)
I don't think it scales when 99% of us get laid off and we all have the same plan B.
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by marssaxman on Thursday September 21, 2023 @02:54PM (#37602259)
> we're 10 years away from a world where

...software developers have adapted to the newest tools and started working at a higher level of abstraction, just as we have been doing over and over since the beginning of the art.

Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by sweezyjeezy on Thursday September 21, 2023 @03:25PM (#37602821)
There's a key difference between writing for the screen and writing for software - making software engineers more efficient makes software cheaper and raise its demand. But writers in TV and film are not the bottleneck, making them more efficient will not lead to more demand for entertainment, . It's clearer to me that the latter camp are in trouble.
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by awiesenhofer on Thursday September 21, 2023 @01:09PM (#37600660)
Hm, anyone know what prompt one would need to finally generate the full Winds of Winter?
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by samr71 on Thursday September 21, 2023 @01:32PM (#37601039)
GRRM doesn't know either. That's why he's suing to try to find it in discovery
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by ChrisArchitect on Thursday September 21, 2023 @04:56PM (#37604203)
[dupe]
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by ChrisArchitect on Thursday September 21, 2023 @04:57PM (#37604223)
More discussion over here from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37585157
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by mimd on Thursday September 21, 2023 @05:21PM (#37604541)
He's looking at this all wrong. AI can be used to complete his story, as he has no chance at the rate he's going. Might even be less divisive than HBO's finale.
Re:‘Game of Thrones’ creator and other authors sue ChatGPT-m... by musicale on Friday September 22, 2023 @03:18AM (#37608923)
That was my first thought as well.

It's probably Brandon Sanderson who should complain because there will be less of a market for completing unfinished series.