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Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by ceejayoz on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:31AM (#37557596)
> The same way the F-35 does I guess.

No, because that's in part "let the human pilot make decisions".

> Besides, it's pretty common for AI systems to overtake human capabilities these days...

Not in the realm of "should I shoot that thing?" sort of decisions.

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by mrtksn on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:37AM (#37557669)
let the human pilot make decisions == let the machine make decisions

It's not like pilots are making political decisions. They pilot and shoot predefined targets, avoid hostile actions. AI is capable of doing this.

> Not in the realm of "should I shoot that thing?" sort of decisions.

On the contrary, AI is very capable of making that decision. There are no philosophical dilemmas or children in the skies and even if there were we are at the point where we can tell the device not shoot children. There will be mistakes but human pilots makes mistakes too.

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by ceejayoz on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:40AM (#37557712)
Military pilots absolutely make all sorts of decisions, like "that looks like a civilian target, maybe I have incorrect info" or "a little kid just ran into the target area" or "the controller says I just shot at friendlies".

I would not currently trust an AI to handle those very well.

What would an AI have done in this situation? What should it have done? "Russian pilot deliberately fired missiles at a Royal Air Force surveillance plane in international airspace over the Black Sea last year": https://apnews.com/article/uk-russia-fighter-jet-missile-bla...

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by mrtksn on Monday September 18, 2023 @12:01PM (#37558032)
AI can absolutely say "that looks like a civilian target, maybe I have incorrect info" or "a little kid just ran into the target area" or "the controller says I just shot at friendlies".

What makes you think that AI can't incorporate those into decision making? Pilots do these through instruments anyway.

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by ceejayoz on Monday September 18, 2023 @12:33PM (#37558465)
> What makes you think that AI can't incorporate those into decision making?

The fact that state-of-the-art AI already fails at much simpler decisions.

In the case of the Black Sea incident, the potential consequences include global thermonuclear war.

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by alistairSH on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:23PM (#37559961)
The same AI that gets confused when you stick a traffic cone on the hood? Yeah, I don't want that algorithm deciding who to bomb.
Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by CamperBob2 on Monday September 18, 2023 @08:15PM (#37564069)
Self-driving cars are a much harder problem than anything airborne.
Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by weard_beard on Monday September 18, 2023 @10:33PM (#37565012)
Maybe we can use autonomous drones to shoot the traffic cones off the self driving cars then.
Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by nradov on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @12:19PM (#37572221)
Wrong. Flying from point to point is easy. Following complex ROEs, using combined arms tactics, dealing with system failures, identifying valid targets, and employing weapons are all much harder problems than self-driving cars.

It's always hilarious to see the confidently incorrect comments by a bunch of ignorant software developers. The Dunning–Kruger effect is on full display here.

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by CamperBob2 on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @01:38AM (#37580731)
LOL, OK. You've listed a lot of problems that have been largely solved already, and are trying to convince us that they are harder than a problem that has eluded the brightest people in the tech industry, armed with computational tools that the aerospace community never dreamed of and backed by more-or-less infinite capital.

Nothing is harder than self-driving cars. Nothing. We'll colonize Mars before we have a solid solution to that problem. Why? Self-driving cars have to coexist with human drivers and human infrastructure. Nobody in aerospace has that problem. If they did, they'd run screaming for the hills.

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by nradov on Wednesday September 20, 2023 @03:11PM (#37588657)
You've been watching too many movies and are just making things up. Those problems haven't been solved in tactical aviation.
Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by CamperBob2 on Saturday September 23, 2023 @02:32PM (#37626008)
No, it's just that every time I drive somewhere, I try to maintain a low-priority thread in my head to work on the problem, "How would I write code to do what I just did?" Frequently the answer is, "I have no idea, and wow, I'm glad it's not my job."

That simply doesn't happen when I fly my quads. "How would I write code to dodge an attacking drone? How would I modify my drone to drop a grenade or a Molotov cocktail, or otherwise cause a large amount of grief to people below? How would I build a SLAM model that allows the drone to do this without intervention from the ground?" None of these engineering problems bug me the way driving a car would. They are all addressable with multiple degrees of freedom, both literally and figuratively.

Meanwhile, on the road:

"Hmm, the light at this intersection is out. There's a cop with an angry look on his face, flapping his arms at me like a dying chicken. What does he want me to do, exactly?"

"Huh, here I am in Seattle, and it looks like they have chosen to mark the stripes on the road with some sort of paint whose complex impedance at optical frequencies is identical to that of rainwater. I'm sure glad I'm driving, and not my lane-keep assistant, which I had to turn off because it tried to steer me into the median the last time it snowed."

"Whoa, where'd that ambulance come from. The law says I have to move right, but the only way I can get out of his way is to move left, and in any case, that's what the car ahead of me is doing. What to do, what to do."

In most of the airborne scenarios you mention, doing nothing is a perfectly viable, fail-safe solution when confronted with a situation the hardware or software can't handle. If we approach driving that way, a few miscreants can brick an entire city, intentionally or otherwise.

I'm not surprised Karpathy tapped out, let's put it that way.

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by selimthegrim on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:37PM (#37560923)
Or the USS Liberty for that matter.
Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by nradov on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:53AM (#37557915)
Nonsense. AI can work well enough for striking certain known targets. But it is simply not capable of following complex rules of engagement or adapting to highly dynamic situations in real time. We are at least decades away from that capability in a general sense. What you see in movies is not reality.

Sixth-generation tactical aircraft (the successors to the F-35) are likely to be optionally manned. They will be able to operate with remote pilots and/or autonomous control for high risk strike missions but most of the time will still have human crews on board.

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by mrtksn on Monday September 18, 2023 @12:04PM (#37558071)
If you haven't notice, lately AI is pretty good at woking with information that never seen before.
Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by Angostura on Monday September 18, 2023 @12:42PM (#37558571)
It's also pretty good at hallucinating convincingly.
Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by nradov on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @12:14PM (#37572121)
Apparently you haven't been paying attention and don't understand the basics of AI technology. It is terrible at handling novel situations, especially in something as complex as tactical aviation.
Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by closewith on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:56AM (#37557962)
> It's not like pilots are making political decisions.

In the age of the Strategic Corporal, they absolutely are.

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by ImHereToVote on Monday September 18, 2023 @02:52PM (#37560366)
I'm more worried about domestic use. It's hard to get soldiers to carpet bomb wrong thinkers.
Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by ceejayoz on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:32PM (#37560865)
> It's hard to get soldiers to carpet bomb wrong thinkers.

I'm not sure how accurate that is historically.

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by ImHereToVote on Tuesday September 19, 2023 @02:53AM (#37566464)
I didn't say it's impossible, but it isn't sustainable. With autonomous drones, it's easy. Ask your generals if autonomous drones are right for you.
Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by k12sosse on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:46AM (#37557811)
> Tarnak Farm incident

Canada's first losses in a combat zone since Korean War.

> "Let's just make sure that it's, that it's not friendlies, is all"

> Twenty-two seconds later, he reported a direct hit. Ten seconds later, the controller ordered the pilots to disengage, saying the forces on the ground were "friendlies Kandahar".

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by ceejayoz on Monday September 18, 2023 @11:48AM (#37557850)
The argument is not "humans never make a mistake".

There's little evidence autonomous combat fighter AIs are better than humans at tough calls of this nature. They may be someday, but given the state of the art in self-driving, that day probably hasn't arrived.

Re:US Military Asks for Help Locating Missing F-35 Fighter Jet by selimthegrim on Monday September 18, 2023 @03:37PM (#37560936)
Weren’t they in Croatia under UNPROFOR in the Medak pocket?