Re:Our Self-Driving Cars Will Save Lives, but They Will Kill...
by ianbutler on Saturday September 09, 2023 @07:01PM
(#37451153)
That's what regulation is for, we have a good example in the FAA here, now we'll need something like the FAVA (Federal Autonomous Vehicle Administration) to design regulation for autonomous cars.
We have a lot of precedent at this point on how to handle new ambiguous human advancements. Typically it goes, discovery, wild west, blood, regulation, standard part of society. Rinse and repeat.
Re:Our Self-Driving Cars Will Save Lives, but They Will Kill...
by add-sub-mul-div on Saturday September 09, 2023 @07:39PM
(#37451394)
Thank you, regulation, I forgot to mention it. That's another pillar of the argument that we know from history that we can't rely on our current structures regarding how we receive SV's rate and style of "innovation".
Re:Our Self-Driving Cars Will Save Lives, but They Will Kill...
by ianbutler on Saturday September 09, 2023 @08:24PM
(#37451687)
That's not really true though. Tesla for instance is regulated like a car manufacturer, not an sv app developer. This is bit of a false equivalence you're putting forth.
Re:Our Self-Driving Cars Will Save Lives, but They Will Kill...
by AlotOfReading on Saturday September 09, 2023 @09:03PM
(#37451922)
Have you ever dealt with automotive regulation? There are standards, sure, but most of the actual verification in the US basically amounts to "trust me bro" until there's overwhelming evidence of an active, fatal safety flaw. It's retroactive and increasingly inadequate to how modern vehicles are designed.
Re:Our Self-Driving Cars Will Save Lives, but They Will Kill...
by ianbutler on Saturday September 09, 2023 @10:00PM
(#37452222)
I have not, but I was assuming it was better than regulation of apps, of which there is almost no regulation. Sad to hear it may be otherwise. I was hoping it had the same track record as aviation regulation which is pretty dang good.
Re:Our Self-Driving Cars Will Save Lives, but They Will Kill...
by toomuchtodo on Saturday September 09, 2023 @07:31PM
(#37451345)
Require canaries of substantially significant changes through regulatory mechanisms and approval. Regulators should get access to the same telemetry the manufacturer has.
Re:Our Self-Driving Cars Will Save Lives, but They Will Kill...
by lazystar on Saturday September 09, 2023 @07:49PM
(#37451476)
>substantially significant changes
any change is significant, even the smallest, not just due to the possible bugs, but also because of the potential risks/side effects that can occur during the update + patching process of the car. regulation will need to have automated driving go back to waterfall style deployments that get applied by a licensed mechanic.
until such regulation is in place, i recommend not driving during the last/first weeks of Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4, as dev teams will be rushing OTA patches in order to complete their projects.
Re:Our Self-Driving Cars Will Save Lives, but They Will Kill...
by polyomino on Saturday September 09, 2023 @07:06PM
(#37451191)
We could also simply just not update them all at once. This is just baseless fear mongering. Obviously everyone agrees there's more engineering rigor that should go into these things than your run of the mill CRUD app from a seed stage startup.
Re:Our Self-Driving Cars Will Save Lives, but They Will Kill...
by miohat on Sunday September 10, 2023 @12:55AM
(#37453014)
Softwares may have a lot of undiscovered bugs, but it's still way more dependable than humans.
And, bugs in softwares are also written by humans. So, imo, we just transform the risk of human driver to human programmers while transforming to autonomous vehicles.
You're jumping to a quantitative comparison because that's simpler and more obvious, but the right way to think about it is qualitatively.
We have over half a century of understanding of modern human driving patterns. We know the ceiling on the number of accidents/deaths that humans will cause. We know that if it changes, it will change slowly.
AI works differently. An update to code or models wipes out all expectations we've learned from prior versions.
In short, the entire fleet of autonomous vehicles can change behavior overnight with a software update and become murder tanks.
Nothing will ever happen to all human drivers at once. Some small percentage will be drunk at any given time. We'll never all wake up with a new drunk version of ourselves at the same time.
I don't mean to say that autonomous technology could never work in principal. But we know that this SV in practice has too much hubris and too little oversight to deploy sensitive products responsibly, or with attention to any values above profit and growth.