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Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by nonrandomstring on Thursday September 07, 2023 @09:11AM (#37418391)
Perhaps we're seeing a watershed moment for western culture.

I hope the US government feeling ready to take on Google is merely a symptom of a broader sea-change.

The problem is not one player like Google getting too big as a business. Monopolies naturally arise and get cut down, as often by markets than regulation.

The change is that we must challenge the very idea that it's acceptable for one way of being , whether technology, platform, protocol, or practice to become a de-facto norm - and radically exclude all others.

Mono-culture is in the crosshairs now, not monopoly.

And that applies to the enforced "cashless society", effectively mandated smartphone use, single strong identity systems , cloud everything and app everything, and so on...

Mono-cultures, whether in digital tech or banana crops, never end well. Lack of plurality is antithetical to long-term resilience and a healthy democracy and society.

Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by bluescrn on Thursday September 07, 2023 @09:32AM (#37418671)
To governments, big tech monopolies/monocultures are good. They're a single point of control.

Want to have a back-door installed to spy on users? Want to silence a problematic dissident? - Much easier to get it done in one place than in many. Especially if you can leverage the threat of 'breaking up a monopoly' if they don't want to comply...

Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday September 07, 2023 @10:09AM (#37419132)
> have a back-door installed to spy on users

There is little evidence this is a motivator for Western leaders. It’s certainly not explanatory for Europe or American states.

Your single point of control point is valid. But these conglomerates’ value to policymakers is broader than spying. Want to pass a tech-leadership package? There’s a ready provider. Deliver on social messaging goals, like diversity or free speech? Scaled provider there, too.

Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by TexanFeller on Thursday September 07, 2023 @10:52AM (#37419755)
> Deliver on social messaging goals, like diversity or free speech? Scaled provider there, too.

If you expect a monopoly/monoculture to promote diversity and free speech you will be sorely disappointed.

Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by dizzydes on Thursday September 07, 2023 @09:17AM (#37418480)
Monopolies are one thing as the products are similar so massive network effects and economies of scale might need to be offset by govt regulation.

But on the monoculture point - doesn't the free market allow and reward diversity in areas people want it? You mention cashless society as an example.

Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by Retric on Thursday September 07, 2023 @09:33AM (#37418679)
People want more than one thing so diversity may easily fail to overcome the desire for cheaper prices etc.

That’s the fundamental advantage to many kinds of regulations, markets can’t convey unlimited information. We don’t want people constantly trying to decide where to eat based on the perceived risks of food born illness rather than price and how good the food tastes etc. By minimizing the risks of trying new restaurants you increase competition in other areas.

Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by ethbr1 on Thursday September 07, 2023 @09:27AM (#37418597)
People as a whole balance diversity against the benefits of picking most-popular / best-in-breed (e.g. better support, reliability, and features; because it's funded at scale).
Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by dangus on Thursday September 07, 2023 @09:33AM (#37418686)
I’m really confused at your comment because it seems to be rejecting the idea of a monopoly but then describing a monopoly with a different word (“mono-culture”).

I’m not sure how you get a mono-culture in the way you’re describing without a monopoly. Google has a monopoly on search, end of story. They have over 90% marketshare worldwide.

Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by AbrahamParangi on Thursday September 07, 2023 @09:49AM (#37418889)
I don't believe it's rejecting the monopoly concept, but rather pointing out that monopolies are but one (economic) instance of a broader pattern, monocultures. Monocultures are hyper-enriched in some aspects but depleted in many others and most importantly depleted in diversity. From game theory we can understand monocultures as an extrema on the exploration-exploitation tradeoff (trading off all exploration for exploitation). From evolution we know how this ends (poorly).
Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by Guvante on Thursday September 07, 2023 @10:47AM (#37419687)
Monopoly law isn't about being the biggest provider.

Monopoly law is about leveraging your position as a big provider against competition.

Microsoft had as much market share in consumer OS. They didn't get in trouble for that. They got in trouble for killing Netscape by bundling IE and forcing Windows on all devices by charging per device sold regardless of whether Windows was installed or not. (Might have missed other suits but these are examples)

Government intervention to ensure competition rarely happens so maybe a new term to describe that would be good.

Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by matthewfelgate on Thursday September 07, 2023 @09:35AM (#37418713)
You seem to be brain dumping lots of personal opinions unrelated to the article.

Quite willing to discuss them though!

Not sure Google enforces one way of being: there is Bing search instead of Google and iPhone instead of Android.

Cashless society is a different concept, but also you have Google Pay, Apple Pay, others. so still not a monopoly.

Cloud everything, not sure want you want different. Companies to have their own serves in their offices?

Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by afavour on Thursday September 07, 2023 @09:40AM (#37418779)
> Not sure Google enforces one way of being: there is Bing search instead of Google and iPhone instead of Android.

And Google paid Apple to make them the default search engine on iPhones!

To rewind back to the 90s: there was always an alternative to Internet Explorer. But MS was still punished for bundling Internet Explorer with Windows.

Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by Guvante on Thursday September 07, 2023 @10:50AM (#37419731)
Microsoft also explicitly wanted to kill Netscape when it did that. (Other anti bundling lawsuits have won without that situation so I don't know if that is necessary but it certainly hurt their case)
Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by nonrandomstring on Thursday September 07, 2023 @09:52AM (#37418932)
Of course all opinions are personal, but I feel connecting the dots within these issues is an urgent project.

Thanks, would sincerely love you to discuss these things, and you can find (mine and others') attempts to connect those dots here on our podcast: https://cybershow.uk

Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by tjoff on Thursday September 07, 2023 @10:23AM (#37419326)
Duopoly is arguably even worse than a monopoly though.
Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by matthewfelgate on Friday September 08, 2023 @01:59AM (#37429936)
Then they should go after Microsoft and Apple for their Duopoly of the desktop OS market.
Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by tjoff on Friday September 08, 2023 @01:16PM (#37436449)
It is nowhere near as damaging as the phone market though, by a massive margin.
Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by matthewfelgate on Friday September 15, 2023 @06:01AM (#37520725)
Why?
Re:Is Google's looming monopoly trial a watershed moment for... by tjoff on Saturday September 16, 2023 @06:18AM (#37533535)
I can pick up pretty much any PC and install whatever OS I want on it.

There is a plethora of thriving communities and unfathomable amount of diversity and options.

Phone hardware are in most cases locked down, and even if they are not the bespoke hardware with terrible support is pretty much unusable. There are software alternatives but they are severely lacking and often lock you out of core features that even the most modest smartphone user expect to function. And that society expects you to be able to do.

Comparatively a PC is nirvana, I know apple is trying their darn best to change that but it is in a pretty good state.

The mindshare and actual usage is also several orders of magnitudes better.