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Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:02PM (#37398385)
There is a breakdown of education and personal ambition. Once someone has been brought up to be 'feral' with no education and even a disdain for education, it tends to knock down families for generations.
Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by coastermug on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:07PM (#37398441)
Genuinely interested here, who are you referring to as ‘feral’?

I see a lot of very well educated non-feral people in the UK struggling to make good wages and a ‘proper’ standard of living. I think that’s what is meant by a broken social contract ?

Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by jimnotgym on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:07PM (#37398436)
My kids assume they will never own their own home. They had their education trashed by covid. It is hard to be ambitious when you see success as impossible.
Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:26PM (#37398654)
Covid revealed good schools and bad schools. But it also made plain parents who valued education and parents who didn't.
Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by polar8 on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:10PM (#37398473)
Not with that attitude they won't!
Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by eastbound on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:19PM (#37398571)
Shaming people for being losers is not a good way to enroll them again onto a path to success. It actually causes murders, if you count the incels that are shamed until they commit a mass murder to have their suffering heard.

I’m an ambitious guy with lots of success and I work day and night. But I’d never reckon bravery in someone who’s working day and night, they have it easy, since they ecosystem is answering positively to more work from their side. So I just had to bring in the work. Oppositely, when the economy pulls of down by your bootstraps, it takes real courage to be ambitious.

Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by Sharlin on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:18PM (#37398560)
That's dangerously close to victim blaming…

The UK is an inherently classist society. No need for disdain when it's been the case for literally a thousand years that certain people are afforded excellent education, and others… aren't. Any disdain of education among the working class is more a consequence than a cause.

Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:33PM (#37398718)
Look at the education outcomes statistics.

Immigrants from South and East Asia have children who fare much better than those from the "white working class". It's not because of society or money, it's because of culture and values.

I am not blaming 'victims' but on the other hand if you don't do anything to help yourself you can't expect success...

A personal anecdote: we tried to get one of our children into a grammar school and so got private tuition for 11+ exam preparation. 90% of those attending were of Indian origin, very few 'Brits'. And we are also immigrants.

Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by nathan_compton on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:11PM (#37398482)
If this happens it is a failure of society. It isn't as if people just up and decide one day "I guess I just want to be poor and miserable."
Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:24PM (#37398627)
It's both. Society plays a role but people do, too.
Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by throwawaysleep on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:14PM (#37398515)
They do repeatedly, by taking no action to change it.
Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by Sharlin on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:19PM (#37398566)
Must be nice, being that naive.
Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by daze42 on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @07:04PM (#37399021)
Society is just a lot of people.
Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by gizajob on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @07:24PM (#37399190)
The Thatcherite maxim of "there's no such thing as society" is what the Conservative government still have in place today, and have done since the 80s.
Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by mytailorisrich on Wednesday September 06, 2023 @02:13AM (#37401829)
The point is that 'society' is not something distinct from us that we can blame. Society is only the average result of each and all of us individually, like the big, bad 'market' is.

What Thatcher said:

"There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first."

Which touches the crux of the matter here.

Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by sg47 on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:27PM (#37398656)
But conservatives everywhere want exactly this. They are keeping their audiences and electorate stupid with Fox News, etc and making the rich richer.
Re:Poor people ‘surviving not living’ as UK social contract ... by christkv on Tuesday September 05, 2023 @06:46PM (#37398859)
The highest prices are in deeply liberal cities.