News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by bemusedthrow75 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @04:23AM (#37270807)
I’m in the UK. Yesterday I watched an eighty-plus year old woman settle her similarly elderly, physically-impaired husband into his seat on the train then get out her iPad to write an email.

On my journey home in a more crowded train I saw half a dozen iPads just from where I was sitting. They are extremely useful devices for train journeys.

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by pbhjpbhj on Saturday August 26, 2023 @05:23AM (#37271042)
Only Apple iPads or are you using the term generically? I'm guessing you're in London or another major city?

Similar to the parent I only ever see iPads in two places, the hands of rich kids in restaurants, and in primary schools.

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by GraemeMeyer on Saturday August 26, 2023 @05:57AM (#37271231)
In the UK you basically only see iPads (95%+). Android tablets aren’t common
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by callahad on Saturday August 26, 2023 @07:45AM (#37271891)
Kindle Fire excepted; loads of those in the hands of kids all over.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by Fluorescence on Saturday August 26, 2023 @08:48AM (#37272385)
I see a lot of Surfaces in commuter hours.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by bemusedthrow75 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @06:22AM (#37271423)
Only Apple iPads as far as I could see, but by no means only the most expensive or newest. Non-Apple tablet devices really are not often seen in the UK (some convertible PCs, the occasional Samsung tablet).

If you spend a lot of time on public transport, an iPad isn't really that much of a luxury item. It's a really pragmatic choice, and at least in the UK an entry-level or recent secondhand iPad is not much more expensive than the cheapest usable alternative.

Most seats on British trains are not at tables, and while many (by no means all, depends on the operator) have a seatback tray table, it is generally not the right shape for all but the smallest laptop, and the proportions are not such that they work well with convertible PCs that use screen-cover keyboards.

We really get crammed into trains.

An iPad is large enough to read a book or emails even if you are stuck without a seat, the on-screen keyboard is practical enough to write reasonable emails or edit small documents on, watch a film on, etc.

So is a very cost effective way to make use of what might be 2+ hours of every working day.

(Train travel is pretty expensive over any distance, too. An entry level iPad is only about ten times the cost of an ad-hoc journey into London from where I am.)

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by throwaway2037 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @08:27AM (#37272204)

    So is a very cost effective way to make use of what might be 2+ hours of every working day.
Here is the first mistake. Get rid of the ridiculous commute. Then, you will not need an iPad!
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by bemusedthrow75 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @08:47AM (#37272382)
Two hours of commuting in the south east of the UK is as little as thirty miles each way in the overground part alone. Quite a common commute. Far from a ridiculous one, and if you get a seat, not really very uncomfortable.

You can either drive it and do nothing but listen to something relatively simple, or sit in a train and read/work/draw/listen/play games/sleep.

(It’s not my commute; I work from home. But I visit clients sometimes; yesterday involved six hours of train/tube travel. I wouldn’t do that every day but I could do it once a week.)

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by googlryas on Saturday August 26, 2023 @11:03AM (#37273518)
30 miles is an outrageous commute. To put it another way, there are 2800 square miles of land closer than your job.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by ghaff on Saturday August 26, 2023 @11:19AM (#37273664)
2 hours each way is indeed not a very sustainable commute. I had a 90 minute one about every other day for a bit over a year and I wouldn't have wanted to do that long-term.

However, 30 miles is significantly under the average US commuting distance. And, unless you live and work near an urban downtown, 30 miles probably doesn't get you to a lot of appropriate professional jobs. I live in an exurb outside a major metro and my (nominal) office is the nearest tech job I could physically commute to and it barely squeezes in under 30 miles.

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by googlryas on Saturday August 26, 2023 @11:27AM (#37273734)
No, the average US commute is 16 miles one way, whereas OP was saying 30 miles each way:

https://hbr.org/2021/05/that-dreaded-commute-is-actually-goo...

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by ghaff on Saturday August 26, 2023 @11:39AM (#37273819)
I was basing it on this data: https://www.zippia.com/advice/average-commute-time-statistic...

But, yes, other numbers seem to be lower (and are generally more likely to quote commute time rather than distance which is probably more relevant for most people).

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by bemusedthrow75 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @05:13PM (#37276958)
Should clarify that I say two hours per day above. I don't think I'd spend two hours going thirty miles, or even necessarily choose a job that involved driving thirty miles every day.

But thirty miles in an hour on urban/suburban rail isn't particularly unusual. And this time is time you can use, if you have even a little bit of method about it. I know people who have done all the reading for entire higher education degrees in that period of time.

At any rate, the notion to which you're responding regarding the area of possible commute being 2800 square miles is foolish. You have to go to where the jobs gather, and there are all sorts of complex reasons why they don't distribute evenly across that area that a rational person should not spend time weighing up when they consider whether an iPad might be a useful thing for the train.

In my case, if I made the commute into London on a daily basis, knocking down the distance to this hypothetical US average of 16 miles might save, I think, about a third of the journey time in practice. It would knock off half of the price of a season ticket, which might be useful. But it would add easily 40% to the cost of a house, which is the overriding concern. And even then I'd still buy the iPad for that journey.

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by roland35 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @09:05AM (#37272514)
Have you tried buying a place in London?? Not sure if this is sarcasm or not!
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by dazc on Saturday August 26, 2023 @09:59AM (#37273005)
It's non-intended sarcasm. Lot's of people who work in London spend 2 hours (each way) a day travelling through open countryside in order to have both a decent job and somewhere basic to sleep at night.

People who actually live in London tend to be either very rich or unemployed.

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by deaddodo on Sunday August 27, 2023 @02:22AM (#37279925)
I used to commute 2-3hrs/day living in LA. It was just normal. Now that I can work from home, it irritates me even more that companies want to force that back on us.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by throwaway2037 on Monday August 28, 2023 @04:51AM (#37291448)
The traffic in LA is insane. I never understand why people live there for it. Or they should live within walking / biking distance of their job. Car traffic is hell on your mental and physical health.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by TheCapeGreek on Saturday August 26, 2023 @09:08AM (#37272542)
>We really get crammed into trains.

Sincerely, from someone in the third world who has taken UK public transport. You don't.

I don't say this to disparage your message, but hopefully to give some gratitude for the nice things you do have over there.

I found it most amusing how people would get antsy and annoyed when a train was more than 5 minutes late in the UK. For years of me taking South African trains, if there was any delay worth being mad about, it would've been after 2 hours had passed.

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by bemusedthrow75 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @09:42AM (#37272835)
People here don't really get upset about trains being even ten minutes late. That's normal.

And as far as safety is concerned, when every seat is full and there's already very little seat-to-seat distance, the aisle is crammed with people face to back with nothing to hang on to, and the vestibules are all full to the point that people are standing with nothing to support them if the train brakes hard, that is a crammed train. Dangerously so -- indeed, often illegally so.

And this is quite normal, routine and unexceptional at commuter times, and that is not talking about the underground, where it is routine to be packed in to the point that someone's nose is against the window (mine was, yesterday).

I'm sure there are trains elsewhere that are worse. There's nothing I can do about that; it doesn't really change my observation.

(I'm not sure there's a really good point about gratitude here, either, when the people paying for these services where they don't get a seat have to take out substantial loans to afford the annual ticket, whereas you can travel from Cape Town to Johannesburg, with a sleeping car berth, for about 20% more than the amount it costs me to travel an hour into London at off-peak times. But that's a separate point.)

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by masfuerte on Saturday August 26, 2023 @10:44AM (#37273363)
Back in the 80s the trains still had guard's vans. When you've stood in the middle of a crammed, unlit, violently shaking box with nothing for anyone to hang on to, a place in the aisle seems like luxury! On the other hand, the intercity seats were more comfortable in those days, the windows opened and you didn't have to wait for the train to stop before you got off.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by bemusedthrow75 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @03:44PM (#37276158)
Yeah. I went to school on the train and did that a couple of dozen times over seven years. Also remember being horrifyingly crammed into the corridor of a former first class carriage.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by SoftTalker on Saturday August 26, 2023 @02:54PM (#37275781)
> when every seat is full and there's already very little seat-to-seat distance, the aisle is crammed with people face to back with nothing to hang on to, and the vestibules are all full to the point that people are standing with nothing to support them if the train brakes hard, that is a crammed train.

That was the Metra BN line in Chicago when I lived there, at least the rush hour departures at around 5:00pm. I was on a train so full that I could not even fully get into the vestibule, I had to push people in with my body so the door could close behind me. Many times the CTA trains were similarly full.

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by iggldiggl on Monday August 28, 2023 @06:44AM (#37292157)
> with nothing to support them if the train brakes hard

Generally speaking and especially when compared with trams or buses, mainline trains don't really do "hard" braking, though. Though I concede that the jerk of coming to a full stop with the brakes fully applied (during regular braking drivers and/or the train control system will ease off the brakes before stopping) may be somewhat borderline in terms of keeping your stability.

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by gizajob on Saturday August 26, 2023 @11:00AM (#37273493)
I’m sure you’re totally right, but try getting a cross-country train in the UK on a Sunday when the two trains in front of you have been cancelled. And paying £110 for the privledge. You really do get crammed in.

Also try the Tube in London’s rush hour - more like stuffed in than even crammed in. Full armpit-in-the-face experience.

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by TheCapeGreek on Monday August 28, 2023 @04:18AM (#37291263)
I've been on one or two London trains during rush hour. Yeah, it's cramped.

I've also hung out of Cape Town trains because that's the only way to get on - all doors forced open by commuters so we can get a few more people to work.

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by gjvc on Saturday August 26, 2023 @12:59PM (#37274578)
The UK is becoming a third world country at a rapid pace, don't you worry.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by gizajob on Sunday August 27, 2023 @03:02AM (#37280122)
I was in Malaysia in March and there was a big public artwork showing Malaysia’s commitment to the UN Sustainable Development Goals, and I thought “Sh*t we need those too!”

https://sdgs.un.org/goals

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by tweetle_beetle on Sunday August 27, 2023 @04:30PM (#37286362)
I once did a project (not freelance I hasten to add) for a wealthy and shady company based in a very expensive office in a very expensive old money postcode. They are involved in immoral, and probably illegal, activities, some of which received attention from national press. They were the sort of organisation that has disaster comms skills in house. They also had a document that proudly proclaimed how they met every single one of the UN's SDGs. Never understood how they managed to keep a straight face on that topic.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by gjvc on Sunday August 27, 2023 @05:16PM (#37286717)
This sounds fascinating!
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by gizajob on Sunday August 27, 2023 @07:11PM (#37287568)
I’ve no doubt they did. Shame about the illiterate plebs begging nearby though.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by ghaff on Saturday August 26, 2023 @09:36AM (#37272779)
I literally can't remember the last time I took a laptop out on a train or a plane. If it's a short trip, I may get by with just my phone (or phone + Kindle) but for longer trips I like the iPad as a media consumption and note taking device even if, to the OP's point, it's not really a laptop replacement.

That said, I'm going on a few week--mostly recreational--trip in a bit and I'll just take my phone and my iPad. It will be fine for note-taking at the conference I'm attending and I really just want media consumption and a browser on something bigger than my phone for everything else.

An iPad is probably one of my more optional devices but I've gotten almost 10 years out of my current model so it doesn't feel like an unreasonable luxury even if I mostly use it when traveling.

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by pbhjpbhj on Saturday August 26, 2023 @05:42PM (#37277181)
Thanks for expanding on your experience. Not commuting, and coming from a relatively poor small city, when I'm on trains I only ever see people on phones and occassionally laptops for people doing actual work.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by ngcc_hk on Saturday August 26, 2023 @07:30PM (#37277884)
Same; except I also do south England to Scotland by train … the one thing is the 4/5g reception or Wi-Fi is really no good. Have to download things before (Netflix) or make sure the book you want to read is actually in the book app. Then 7 hour is ok. Notebook as said is too big.
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by asdfgeoff on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @03:24AM (#37318736)
> … a seatback tray table, it is generally not the right shape for all but the smallest laptop …

As someone who very much prefers having a physical keyboard, the only workable solution I have found for UK trains is an iPad with the Magic Keyboard, whose cantilever design is relatively shallow, and which provides a firm base for balancing on your legs.

There is no reason this form factor couldn't be achieved with an android tablet, but it feels relatively uncommon. Most keyboard cases I've seen are only really suitable for stable table/desk scenarios.

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by ClumsyPilot on Saturday August 26, 2023 @06:45AM (#37271559)
Commute Chelmsford to London (27 minutes), annual ticket is $6,000.

So cost of an iPad isn't a huge concerns at that point

https://www.thetrainline.com/season-tickets/chelmsford-to-lo...

Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by markb139 on Saturday August 26, 2023 @06:52AM (#37271594)
We have an 87 year old who is a real fan of her iPad for staying in touch, reading and audio books. I personally use 3 ipads - I hate to throw stuff away: 1) old 9.7 pro as main device 2) old Air 2 for Zwift (this will sadly retire when updates are no longer available 3) Even older Air for connecting to FlightSim for charts
Re:Giving up the iPad-only travel dream by sib on Saturday August 26, 2023 @11:16AM (#37273644)
iPads dominate the "premium" segment worldwide (something like 70-80% market share of tablets from US$300 - US$1000). Below that, it's all versions of Android - Apple doesn't sell non-premium tablets. Above that, Surface has meaningful share, although iPad still plays significantly.

(Source - worked at Google in Android)