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Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by infogulch on Friday August 25, 2023 @02:30AM (#37258746)
A big part of the problem is the fed that literally pursues a monetary policy that intends to suppress real wage growth. This is why wages are flat for 30 years.
Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by rightbyte on Friday August 25, 2023 @03:26AM (#37259058)
And now they also want people to be laid off.
Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by probelm on Friday August 25, 2023 @04:19AM (#37259351)
They’ve always wanted that: https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/27/business/job-insecurity-o...

Let go of the finance hallucinations and keep logistics going. Let the fiat rich choke themselves out clutching their pearls

Nihilism is not lack of a philosophical framework, it’s awareness but not acting on it

SWEs could halt the fiat economy tomorrow through collective action, but FOMO on the latest in electron state management is too strong for the geniuses lizard brains I guess

Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by FirmwareBurner on Friday August 25, 2023 @04:39AM (#37259473)
>SWEs could halt the fiat economy tomorrow through collective action

From my experience SWEs are the workers' category least likely to get involved in any kind of collective action. They're too self centered and individualistic for that.

Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by probelm on Friday August 25, 2023 @04:51AM (#37259531)
I agree. As an EE by education, I find CS grads and SWEs to be clowns.

“What’s that? You made purpose built counting machines count? You’re welcome.”

The foot fungus eater and the latest DSL dealer can all pound sand.

I laugh at mathematically correct languages like Haskell. If mathematical correctness is a goal, may as well build it into the chip and leave a small programming environment to correct errors and give up on programming all together.

Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by sofixa on Friday August 25, 2023 @05:57AM (#37259900)
> From my experience, modern SWEs are the workers' category least likely to get involved in any kind of collective action. They're too self centered and individualistic for that.

Not to mention way too well paid, comfortable and with lots to lose. Why risk a very comfortable lifestyle for some noble goal that barely concerns you unless you have tons of empathy?

Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by d3vmax on Friday August 25, 2023 @03:32AM (#37259093)
Also, globalization and instant communication has ensured in many field, salaries stagnate due to cheaper labour from elsewhere. Similar to hardware manufacturing jobs.
Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by meowtimemania on Friday August 25, 2023 @04:38AM (#37259462)
what monetary policy suppresses wage growth? (I know little on this subject and am curious)
Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by boppo1 on Friday August 25, 2023 @09:27AM (#37261461)
It'sa little convoluted, but google 'dcf model', 'benchmark rates', and 'open market operations'. It's more than a single post to explain the mechanics, but you can grok it in a few afternoons. I'll attempt anyway:

In order to figure out what activities we ought to allocate resources to, we compare their present values as a sum of future cash flows, each period 'discounted' by a rate. The rate is calculated based on the activities risks + a 'benchmark' or 'risk free' rate. Basically "this activity is risky, how much more should it pay than something totally without risk?"

The closest thing we have to that is US debt. US bonds have a set face value and interest rate, but if you buy above/below the face value, the interest will be a higher or lower return on what you paid, 'yield'. US debt is the most active market in the world, so taking the 'yield' shows what rate the global market[0] is accepting 'risk free' investment.

If the market is nervous, more bonds get bought because everyone wants 'safety'. But this drives up the bond price and lowers yield. Lower yields create an incentive to consider 'hey maybe we do something a little risky after all, it pays better.' Vice versa: if the market is buying risky stuff instead of safe bonds, yields go up and people think 'why do something risky if I can get that return with no risk'?

BUT the Fed interferes in this market. They have unlimited power to buy/sell bonds and therefore establish price ceilings and floors[1]. For most of the past 20 years they created a high price floor, which means low yields. This forces society to allocate resources to risky activity with higher returns.

In particular, when rates go down, cash flows in the future relatively contribute more to present value. With higher rates you look harder at the next 20 years. With lower rates, you look more at years 20+[2].

In practice it made any business that can 'promise the future' an attractive investment. Think Big Tech, VC startups, Tesla, Wework, Theranos. Meanwhile, businesses that are less risky and make goods and services now have to compete with those guys for ROI. If you have little hope of growth, and your business is established you have to raise prices or reduce costs somewhere. You can't control what you pay for raw materials/inputs, but you can control what you pay workers.

To further illustrate: Google burns hundreds of billions on projects that never see daylight or get axed after a couple years. How did market forces decide that was a better use of resources than building (relatively) more hospitals and bridges? Fed yield interference.

I'm not saying high rates are good, or low rates are bad. I'm saying rates that don't match market conditions are bad.

[0] Explainer on the bond market for the uninitiated: Big companies can't safely keep a lot of cash as currency because FDIC insurance is meant for individuals and only covers 250k. Instead you buy something 'safe' and very easily tradeable or 'liquid'. In the past, this might have been gold. Now it's US debt, which works better than gold for this purpose (diff maturities, easier settlement, etc.)

[1] These are decided by a committee of 12 individuals, the FOMC.

[2]To see this for yourself, model out a dcf and then add a column where you divide each discounted cash flow by the present value

Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by lkrubner on Friday August 25, 2023 @05:07AM (#37259609)
That's mostly the fault of the Republicans. After the crisis of 2008 we could have bounced back using either fiscal policy or monetary policy. Congress could have spent a few trillion in stimulus to get the economy back on track. By 2010 it was clear that the initial stimulus of $800 billion was not enough, so further stimulus spending should have been a high priority, but the Republicans blocked further fiscal action. That meant that the Fed had to do all the work, using monetary policy. We didn't get the kind of big stimulus spending we needed till 2020, when President Trump finally pushed through several trillion in stimulus spending in the face of the Covid-19 pandemic. But for years after 2008, the Fed had to do too much work, with monetary policy, because Congress was doing too little with fiscal policy. It would have been healthier for the economy if we'd had fiscal stimulus in the real economy rather than monetary stimulus in the financial economy. Wages would have gone up much more with fiscal stimulus.
Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by peyton on Friday August 25, 2023 @03:31PM (#37266079)
There’s absolutely no way a multi-trillion stimulus bill was passing in 2008–2010. I don’t think it’s fair to place blame on one party or the other.
Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by paulmd on Friday August 25, 2023 @04:20PM (#37266536)
It certainly wasn’t going to pass when rahm emanuel vetoed the idea right out of the gate
Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by slaw on Friday August 25, 2023 @03:33PM (#37266103)
Keep alive too big to die was bad idea. Fed should do nothing especially it shouldn't keep low interest rates for many years.
Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by rayiner on Friday August 25, 2023 @09:31PM (#37269093)
I'm not an economist, but it seems like the multi-trillion Trump stimulus had the exact effect (high inflation) that people were afraid of in 2008-2010.

I'm even inclined to agree with you: inflation is better and healthier than the financial gimmickry we did in 2008-2010. But the pushback to that seems to be much broader than "Republicans." Biden's approval rating on the economy is at 36%, and it's just 52% among Democrats 18-44. Americans seem to really hate inflation.

Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by huhtenberg on Friday August 25, 2023 @06:30AM (#37260069)
> This is why wages are flat for 30 years.

Current wages are at the 1993 levels? That's just not true.

Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by FirmwareBurner on Friday August 25, 2023 @06:38AM (#37260107)
Adjusted to purchasing power?
Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by giantg2 on Friday August 25, 2023 @06:57AM (#37260261)
"Real" wages have a specific meaning. I'm sure that is what they meant.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-...

Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by huhtenberg on Friday August 25, 2023 @06:36PM (#37267878)
I don't follow the GP then. What is wrong with adjusted wages being flat? It merely means that the life quality linked to a specific job/profession stayed the same.
Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by medvezhenok on Friday August 25, 2023 @10:00PM (#37269258)
Quality of life might not have stayed the same; quality of life as reflected by the CPI stayed the same (which is different; CPI includes things like hedonic adjustments - and depending on the value you place on those, the result might be different).

Averages also hide very real disparities: software engineers are much better off today than they would have been 30 years ago; truckers, on the other hand, are much worse off today.

Re:America is building chip factories. Now to find the workers by andrewjl on Saturday August 26, 2023 @02:02AM (#37270272)
Housing, healthcare, and education are the biggest drivers when it comes to cost of living. How does monetary policy drive healthcare and education costs?

When it comes to housing, it's pretty clear how the Fed's monetary policy drove those costs in areas where it is scarce. Luckily counteracting that is simple given political will, at least in principle.