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Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by kwhitefoot on Thursday August 24, 2023 @11:28AM (#37249962)
It's not just the 'non tech-savvy' that are failed by this, it is all of us. I don't want to be required to take my smartphone everywhere I go and to make sure the battery doesn't die. There is no excuse for it in most cases. And as for Ryanair requiring a printout, that's just a way of forcing users to pay more. When I last flew with SAS from Trondheim, many years ago there were no check-in staff. I put the credit card I had used to book the ticket with in a reader, it spat out a label that I attached to my bag which I then placed on the belt. I used the same card to gain entry to air side. I used the same card to enter the corral by the actual gate. Finally when boarding there was a person there to attend to any problems and that was it. No need for apps, no paper.
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @11:41AM (#37250176)
> I don't want to be required to take my smartphone everywhere I go and to make sure the battery doesn't die

Why should the world bend to your desires?

> When I last flew with SAS from Trondheim, many years ago there were no check-in staff. I put the credit card I had used to book the ticket with in a reader

"I don't want to inconvenience myself by having to have my phone. But I don't mind if others are inconvenienced by being required to have a credit card"

Cell phone penetration in the US - 97$

https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/#:~:t....

Credit card pentration in the US - 70%

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1362152/credit-card-owne....

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by master-lincoln on Thursday August 24, 2023 @11:50AM (#37250300)
> Why should the world bend to your desires?

Why are you asking this? The OP just stated their view. They stated battery drain being an issue and that they dislike the requirement to have a phone on you at all times. I can relate to that especially with the size and weight of today's phones. There is also the issue of being locatable.

> "I don't want to inconvenience myself by having to have my phone. But I don't mind if others are inconvenienced by being required to have a credit card"

They never said they want others to be required to have a credit card. You are making this up. Why don't companies accept both?

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @11:56AM (#37250393)
Does he not make sure he has enough gas in his car before he drives somewhere? Enough money in his account before he orders at a restaurant? There are certain things that modern society can expect from people. If he decides to go against that, that's on him. If he is posting to HN, obviously he isn't opposed to technology,
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by tharmas on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:37PM (#37251016)
Its a service. The service should be designed to fit the customer, not the other way around. Clearly, the people who designed the system have the same design philosophy as you. That is the problem.
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:40PM (#37251070)
> Its a service. The service should be designed to fit the customer

Every business chooses which customer it is trying to fit and which customer not to fit.

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by zabzonk on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:26PM (#37250843)
It's not "obvious" that he is not opposed to bad and harmful technologies.
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:29PM (#37250896)
So is his computer less harmful than his cellphone?
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by master-lincoln on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:00PM (#37250457)
I see the need for gas for driving somewhere or money to pay something. But I don't see the need for a phone when I want to pay for entering a museum (or a plane for that matter)
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by earthnail on Thursday August 24, 2023 @11:48AM (#37250273)
I don’t have to worry about my credit card’s battery. And I don’t have to buy a new one for several $100 every few years.

Credit cards aren’t ideal, but there are also debit cards and they work just as well. Of course, there are different tradeoffs: what if you paid with a different card than the one in your pocket?

Still, Ryanair requiring printouts is a joke.

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @11:57AM (#37250408)
> And I don’t have to buy a new one for several $100 every few years.

You are free to go on Amazon and buy an unlocked cheap Android phone for $30.

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by iksm on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:17PM (#37250710)
Yah super, running apps made by trainees or websites that takes ages to even render, if not, filled with third party assets and trackers, as well as depending running whole cloud infrastructures just to enter a museum or to see a restaurant menu L O L.

I think you don't even realize how stupid it is.

PS: I did not ever gave 1 cent to Amazon, feel "free" to do so as well.

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:22PM (#37250776)
Well choose where you want to buy cheap unlocked Android phones from.

Do you not think it takes an entire "cloud infrastructure" for the museum to take credit cards?

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by iksm on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:29PM (#37250882)
I think online ticketing systems are fine, and yeah they mostly require to run on a robust infrastructure. Knowing the trends, that certainly would depend on big-tech cloud infrastructure.

I don't care unless this become a mandatory de-facto standard to access public places.

Hopefully yet it is not, and people would reject that if that would become an obligation. But there's a chance that our children would not even know this is bare dumb cause it would be the norm.

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by zabzonk on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:28PM (#37250866)
This is a wind-up, isn't it?
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by ethanbond on Thursday August 24, 2023 @11:48AM (#37250263)
> Why should the world bend to your desires?

Is this your response when anyone shares their opinion on a topic? Like why should anyone say anything if this is considered a meaningful response?

Anyway I am doubtful they are pushing for a credit card-governed world.

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:05PM (#37250521)
It's called free will. We all are free to make our own life choices and accept the consequences of those choices. We are not free to impose our choices on others.
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by ethanbond on Thursday August 24, 2023 @01:09PM (#37251584)
What are you doing here trying to convince people of your views then?
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @02:02PM (#37252417)
I'm doing just the opposite. I support anyone to have any views that they want. It's not the responsibility of businesses to conform to their views.
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by Apocryphon on Thursday August 24, 2023 @02:15PM (#37252577)
The businesses are imposing their choices on others.
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @02:28PM (#37252753)
Are the businesses forcing people to buy their goods and services?
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by Apocryphon on Thursday August 24, 2023 @02:31PM (#37252787)
I don't know, I didn't read the article.
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by pbourke on Thursday August 24, 2023 @11:50AM (#37250301)
1. Not all cellphones are smartphones, and not all smartphones are capable of running a given app

2. Presumably a debit card on the same network would work just as well. What’s the credit + debit card penetration rate?

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:03PM (#37250497)
Okay smart phone penetration rate is 91%

https://www.oberlo.com/statistics/how-many-americans-have-sm....

4.5% of the US is "unbanked". So now we are talking about 4.5% vs 9% and the overlap is probably small.

And before you say poor people probably don't have smart phones. 94% of homeless people have cell phones. The percentage of poor people with cell phones is probably higher.

https://priceschool.usc.edu/news/homeless-los-angeles-cell-p....

(No I'm not judging homeless people for having a life line for survival)

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by iksm on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:00PM (#37250462)
> Why should the world bend to your desires?

Why should the world bend to your desires?

Why should we accept a smartphone-dependent society ? Because it pleases you or because this is imposed by the top and you just accept it, then find all the other just being morons ? :)

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:41PM (#37251109)
> Why should we accept a smartphone-dependent society

You don't have to. The Amish haven't. I have no problem with them making that choice either.

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by iksm on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:49PM (#37251240)
So for you, the future will be to be either Amish or google implanted ? Or would there be any place in between for "normal" people ?

Yeah those are both extreme points. But this is really violent to wish no middle in between.

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:51PM (#37251290)
Yes 90%+ including 94% of the homeless population have a cell phone. You are making the choice to be in the minority of people who choose to inconvenience yourself. The Amish have the courage of their convictions and never felt the need to ask the government to force their beliefs on other people.
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by iksm on Thursday August 24, 2023 @04:36PM (#37254216)
However, having smartphones does not mean to go toward and accepting more and more situations where they do become mandatory to enter to public places.

As we expressed before in this topic, applications, websites and their back-ends depends themselves on lots of other things to be reliable. Not even considering security issues or privacy abuses that are reportedly common. This is not an individual problem, it's a society choice that does not seem to be advised.

I'm not against adding methods for accessing such places with some computer connected to a network just like smartphone, smart watches and stuff... If this can be useful, handy and neutral as tools should stay.

Still, I personally don't wish to find myself or anyone reduced, worse, denied by not wearing a specific smartphone (that would even maybe require to accept and sign many private third party conditions) for enjoying a direct interaction with "normal" people having a restaurant or a museum for example.

I would consider extreme to think that, because "everyone have a smartphone" then it should be normal to require that for everything. Implying (not blindly) accepting whole bunches of consequences (that most people seems to want to ignore because otherwise they would feel reduced or rejected) coming with.

Perhaps we don't see the same reality under the same prism and education. This his is not some point. It's just to say... What I sadly observe in general is a total lack of competence or understanding of the information technologies, actors and implications. And outside the fact it is another great source of pollution, they also represent a good opportunity for locking down people and tracking them from a bad actors intentions.

So, I wish that it won't be misused or forced, particularly in situations were this wipes-out freedom to do simple things that works fine, in any ways. Just what's in my mind if we would ask me my opinion.

Thanks for your exchanges there.

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by AnimalMuppet on Thursday August 24, 2023 @11:51AM (#37250315)
> Why should the world bend to your desires?

Because I'm the one spending the money. If you make it harder for me to spend money with you, I'm going to spend less money with you.

> Cell phone penetration in the US - 97$

> Credit card pentration in the US - 70%

Sure. But most credit cards don't have batteries that die.

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:23PM (#37250802)
> Because I'm the one spending the money. If you make it harder for me to spend money with you, I'm going to spend less money with you.

And I as a business owner must be okay with it. See how freedom of choice works? We can both choose which parameters we operate within.

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by AnimalMuppet on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:55PM (#37251366)
If that's your argument, then why, in your other posts on this thread, are you so strongly against letting people choose to not use the phone apps?
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by scarface_74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @01:12PM (#37251651)
They can choose not to use their phone apps and if the business in question doesn't allow any other method to use their services, they have both made their choices.

That's just like Uber has chosen not to have a call dispatch center where you can call them if you want a ride.

Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by nicbou on Thursday August 24, 2023 @11:39AM (#37250134)
These systems also regularly fail for travellers who don't fit the assumptions developers make about users.
Re:No app, no entry: How the digital world is failing the no... by cmiles74 on Thursday August 24, 2023 @11:48AM (#37250276)
The parking app is the worst, IMHO. I can see the parking space but I have to figure out which parking app works with this particular lot and then hope I don't get a ticket.