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Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by boeingUH60 on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @10:30AM (#37236567)
Freedom from government surveillance and potential overreach?

In reality, there’s hardly any 3,000 euros+ transaction where a business or individual will accept cash. That’s too much money to have on hand when a bank transfer is much more comfortable…still happens rarely though so I think this law is overreaching.

Disclosure: I’m not Dutch nor European so my opinion hardly matters here.

Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by dangus on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @10:39AM (#37236734)
I think your second sentence/paragraph points out exactly why this restriction is needed: the only people who would ever in their right mind transact in that much cash are very likely to be either avoiding taxation (a.k.a. stealing from the common taxpayer), or keeping money off the books to hide illegal activity.

The average person isn't affected by this type of government surveillance and potential overreach because the average person doesn't buy things that are priced at over 3,000 euros per transaction. They can easily hide all their daily transactions from the scrutiny of government and surveillance capitalism just fine.

This regulation only impacts the wealthiest people and/or the organized criminal.

Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by Loughla on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @10:50AM (#37236930)
I purchase, restore, and sometimes sell old woodworking machinery as a side gig to subsidize my own purchase of woodworking equipment for my shop.

I have had multiple cash transactions above $3,000 every year that I've done this. Not to avoid taxes, not to keep them off the books, but because one of the parties has either the unwillingness or inability to take electronic payments. Elderly people, those located in rural or otherwise isolated areas, those with a natural distrust of government for whatever reason, or those with a distrust of banks in general. These are all valid use cases.

This law would make it nearly impossible for me to do what I do (on the side).

Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by ryandrake on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @11:25AM (#37237521)
Yea, assuming you're in the USA, I don't think a similar restriction would be workable here in America. Too many people are unbanked or for other reasons transact mostly in cash. And even for those who do have bank accounts, we don't have the nice, bank-based money transfer solutions that are commonplace in the rest of the developed world--we're stuck with shit-tier solutions like Zelle and Venmo and PayPal.

I wouldn't say I routinely do large (>$3000) cash transactions, but I do them often enough that I guess I'd be a criminal in the Netherlands.

Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by tekknik on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @08:54PM (#37243857)
> we're stuck with shit-tier solutions like Zelle and Venmo and PayPal.

Hopefully not for too much longer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedNow

Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by systems_glitch on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @11:27AM (#37237569)
A mechanic we used before moving had a strict no checks policy. He had a bad check for the repair of a church bus, from a church, framed in a fancy gold-painted frame, with "IN GOD WE TRUST, ALL OTHERS PAY CASH" below it.
Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by nottorp on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @12:35PM (#37238604)
But that's because you still use checks over there :)
Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by frumper on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @01:24PM (#37239270)
A stolen credit card isn't any different.
Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by systems_glitch on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @03:55PM (#37241277)
Considering that the last time one of my CC numbers was stolen, it was used to pay for air conditioning service, I'm sure that is also a concern for tradespeople!
Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by nottorp on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @04:26PM (#37241521)
No pin? No 3d secure?
Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by allset_ on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @07:53PM (#37243443)
In the US? Nope.
Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by systems_glitch on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @09:37PM (#37244095)
Really really, it's like that here. I guess it's somehow cheaper to write off fraud than updating everything? Probably some actuary sweating the day the scale tips the other direction.

It's incredible how lax the rules are for how verified the CC information needs to be for a transaction to clear. There was a HN article about it not that long ago, w.r.t. dealing with Stripe or one of the other big processors. Stuff like the CVV can be wrong, the issued name can vary by some heuristic, etc.

Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by throwaway2037 on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @11:48PM (#37244809)
You are paying a mechanic face to face with a stolen credit card? Man, this whole string of posts has become utterly farcical. <Adjusts tin foil hat>
Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by frumper on Thursday August 24, 2023 @12:33AM (#37245027)
I’m confused. You’re under the impression people don’t use stolen cards face to face? The sibling commented about AC service being charged to his stolen card. A credit card is easier to use than a bad check. I’ve never seen anyone take a check without ID.
Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by systems_glitch on Thursday August 24, 2023 @08:12AM (#37247890)
Yeah, apparently people do that. I write "ASK FOR ID" in the signature area on my credit cards, and have never once been asked for ID, so it's at least been my personal experience that no one really looks at a credit card when handed one. Perhaps it's a totally unique and isolated experience :P
Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by dangus on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @12:38PM (#37238660)
It’s unwillingness, not inability.
Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by alphanullmeric on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @01:14PM (#37239134)
Do you believe that someone is stealing from you when they don’t allow you to take something from them?
Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by Shocka1 on Friday August 25, 2023 @01:20PM (#37264421)
> The average person isn't affected by this type of government surveillance and potential overreach because the average person doesn't buy things that are priced at over 3,000 euros per transaction.

"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."

Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by nolok on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @10:45AM (#37236825)
> Freedom from government surveillance and potential overreach?

With all due respect, the transactions above that rough amount is exactly those I would want the government to keep an eye on, while letting me buy stuff for a few hundreds freely and without having to report it.

There is pretty much no situation whatsoever when someone buys something for more than 3k€ where the absolute requirement to use cash is not linked to some shady reasons.

Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by Loughla on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @10:54AM (#37236988)
Like I said to the other poster. I transact often over that amount to purchase old woodworking equipment. The people I work with often do not want to transact electronically for multiple reasons. The tax is paid, it's on the books, but they want cash.

Why should that be limited?

Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by nolok on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @10:59AM (#37237071)
Because a 80/20 rule is much better than having to chose between "everything is controlled" or "nothing is controlled", and that's essentially the two choices we have.

It works just fine in most of europe since a very long time, and frankly people insisting to be paid in cash and then going out of their way to fully declare the taxes and source of the money is even weirded, why not take the easier shortcut.

Of course, maybe it's linked to how strange sending money seems to still be in some circumtances in the US ? Reading about Venmo and the likes is just surprising to me, a 10 minutes SEPA wire is free here, and as good as cash.

Re:Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands by systems_glitch on Wednesday August 23, 2023 @11:30AM (#37237612)
Yeah our electronic transfer methods suck. Even between my business and personal accounts, doing a regular bank transfer, it takes several days. Literally faster to withdraw cash and drive it over.

Meanwhile, if you have to do a wire transfer for a large sum of money, and the bank screws it up, they have around 30 minutes to recall it before the wire is permanently completed.