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Re:A Fistful of Tropes by gary_0 on Monday August 21, 2023 @02:21AM (#37206030)
> Zombies, for example, show us something really ugly about embedded white supremacist terror of a slave revolt

I dunno about that. Years ago, I was (very stupidly) wandering alone in a very bad part of town, and the only other people on the street were the homeless drug addicts, scattered here and there and shuffling about slowly, only dangerous if you let them get within biting range, and I thought, "is this where the zombies thing came from?"

Night of the Living Dead (1968) kicked off the modern zombie trope, and that was around when drug addiction epidemics entered the popular consciousness as well.

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by defrost on Monday August 21, 2023 @02:31AM (#37206083)
If you're intent on imagining a subtext to Night of the Living Dead a movie which never mentions zombies and features the (undead) neighbours harrass a black man who is ultimately shot dead by a sheriff’s deputy then you might also want to recall it was conceived in the aftermath of the Detroit and Newark riots and released to audiences who had just seen National Guardsmen shoot antiwar protesters to death at Kent State University.

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/5390-night-of-the-li...

Shuffling drug addicts is one influence I have no recollection of Romero ever mentioning.

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by gary_0 on Monday August 21, 2023 @02:39AM (#37206124)
I'm not saying that movie in particular had that subtext. Rather, the zombie trope quickly took on a life of its own in the years after Living Dead (and split into the fantasy/cursed and scifi/infected subtropes). Who can say for sure why it resonated?
Re:A Fistful of Tropes by defrost on Monday August 21, 2023 @02:51AM (#37206201)
It's an interesting film, as an Australian who came to it later (I think I first saw it in 1992 ish) it was a while before I apprecriated a whole other perspective it had for some (early case of a film with a black lead, early use of graphic horror, lead character being killed, etc).

A fistful of tropes indeed :)

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by mrob on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:10AM (#37207437)
According to Romero, Duane Jones got the lead role because he gave the best audition, not because the role was written for a black man.
Re:A Fistful of Tropes by defrost on Monday August 21, 2023 @07:32AM (#37208095)
The thing about tropes in movies and literature is that they are often identified and become part of the legend of a work without the intent of the autor.

Whether intended by Romero or not, according to the documentary A Century of Black Cinema (and other related print works) the film had a profound impact on many African American viewers of the time .. because of the lead, because of the story, etc.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1381270/

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by pjc50 on Monday August 21, 2023 @07:37AM (#37208127)
Whether it was the original plan or not, by the time the movie gets to the end credits the parallels to a lynching are incredibly explicit.

I'd like to put in a rec for https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053454/ "The World, the Flesh and the Devil", which is an apocalypse movie with a slightly different premise: what if the only survivors of an apocalypse in apartheit 1950s America were a black man and a white woman? Contains some great shots of deserted New York and some very intense performances.

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by Keysh on Monday August 21, 2023 @12:13PM (#37211580)
It's kind of interesting to read about contemporary reactions to Night of the Living Dead, which included "it's obviously a commentary on the Vietnam War" and "a critique of American capitalism". The closest anyone got to racial issues was the observation that at the end, the (black) main character is killed by a (white) posse led by a sheriff -- which seemed to some people to be an obvious commentary on the Civil Rights Movement and the recent assassinations of Martin Luther King, Jr., and Malcom X.

The modern (21st C) vogue for zombie apocalypse movies pretty clearly stems from two sources: Japanese video games in the 1990s; and a pair of British films in the early 2000s: Resident Evil (based on one of the aforementioned Japanese video games) and 28 Days Later. (It's a bit hard to argue that both the Japanese and the British were acting out some deep-seated fear of a black slave uprising.)

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by defrost on Tuesday August 22, 2023 @01:13AM (#37218927)
> The closest anyone got to racial issues was ..

You apparently missed the explicit references to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Newark_riots

both of which have been cited by Romero as events he watched while writing the film. I'm guessing that perhaps you skimmed over those and mentally bundled them in with the Kent State shootings as "obviously Vietnam war"?

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by Biologist123 on Monday August 21, 2023 @03:07AM (#37206293)
I’ve started to wonder whether zombies are metaphors for bad ideas that refuse to die, as they become wired into culture and belief. A few examples: crypto, carbon offsets, some might say certain religions. Other examples welcome for my own filing system.
Re:A Fistful of Tropes by noirscape on Monday August 21, 2023 @03:36AM (#37206455)
Most zombie stuff is largely made for cheap shock rather than anything else. Few zombie stories are about the zombies themselves. The original author almost hits the nail on the head - the "Elite panic" stuff is a closer understanding of what these stories are about.

It's... Almost an accurate description of a zombie story. The goal of a zombie story is usually to just say "Yeah, look at us humans. Even when the world falls apart around us, we'd rather still hurt and murder each other for selfish gain rather than surviving and sticking together." Which is an assumption that has been challenged very often, especially on the scale of humans that most zombie stories operate on (usually no larger than 4 or 5 families that the cast interacts with.)

It's also to the point where it becomes very predictable when a group that seemingly breaks the mold shows up, just to show they're much more morally evil than it first seems. Group is well off during the apocalypse -> they're cannibals. Odd friendly loner -> he's keeping a zombie (usually a loved one) in his basement and wants to feed the main characters to it. Safe bastion with surviving humans -> someone offs themselves and it falls apart infighting because of the added zombie. Every "good" group must be punished because it'd defy the logic of the genre.

Personally I don't really believe much of what zombie stories have to say is accurate - reality has shown us that when humans are put through events where the majority of other humans around them aren't available (ie. Natural disasters), that we tend to stick together and survive together.

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by earnestzombie on Monday August 21, 2023 @03:41AM (#37206489)
> It is August, the month of the Edinburgh Festival, and not being completely suicidal I'm staying indoors (the population triples with visitors from all over the world, and--predictably--the COVID prevalence has doubled in the past week: Edinburgh's in the middle of a sudden pandemic spike).

Shut-in stays in doors to avoid the Edinburgh Festival crowds, fears covid, August 2023 mind you.

Craves human contact and camaraderie, sends out cry for help by vaguely connecting random pop culture tropes to white supremacy to attract others of his ilk to his comment section.

Not a peep about such theories before they became fashionable in recent years mind you. I feel bad for this person.

Incidentally anybody can lookup the origin of Zombies which easily predates moving pictures by a couple centuries..

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by flangola7 on Monday August 21, 2023 @05:36AM (#37207206)
> Shut-in stays indoors to avoid the Edinburgh Festival crowds under the pretext of fearing covid. August 2023 mind you.

Avoiding crowds is one of the best ways to avoid COVID-19. I don't understand what you're getting at.

> Craves human contact and camaraderie, sends out cry for help by vaguely connecting random pop culture tropes to white supremacy -- as is now tradition -- to attract others of his ilk to his comment section.

As is now tradition? I don't follow this either - can you list a few examples of what you're referring to?

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by earnestzombie2 on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:11AM (#37207446)
> Avoiding crowds is one of the best ways to avoid COVID-19. I don't understand what you're getting at.

Avoiding crowds is of course also one of the best ways to avoid offline social interaction.

> As is now tradition? I don't follow this either - can you list a few examples of what you're referring to?

"Benign random thing is actually rooted in white supremacy" has become a genre. If you watch a movie like zombieland (https://youtu.be/8m9EVP8X7N8) with a frown instead of a smile perhaps indefinitely staying alone in your room is best for all involved. Plausibly, a padded room.

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by gilleain on Monday August 21, 2023 @07:18AM (#37207976)
> Avoiding crowds is of course also one of the best ways to avoid offline social interaction.

Specifically, he's talking about avoiding the crowds in Edinburgh during the festival. Either you've seen this, and you know what he means or ...

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by ImHereToVote on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:16AM (#37207468)
You do know COVID is never going away don't you?
Re:A Fistful of Tropes by Turskarama on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:55AM (#37207772)
Sounds like a great reason to continue being careful!

Maybe one day they'll have a cure for post viral syndrome, until then I'll avoid crowds... like the plague.

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by pjc50 on Monday August 21, 2023 @07:33AM (#37208107)
Probably true, but at the same time: has it got less dangerous and the risk of side effects decreased? Even if it becomes "more dangerous seasonal flu", that's still a consideration for someone of cstross's age and health.
Re:A Fistful of Tropes by SideburnsOfDoom on Monday August 21, 2023 @04:17AM (#37206726)
It's possible that he's speaking less about "Night of the Living Dead (1968)" as an early zombie film, and more about "White Zombie (1932)" as an influence on later films, as it earlier and more clearly on topic: Set on a sugar cane plantation on Haiti, with voodoo, etc.
Re:A Fistful of Tropes by thinkingemote on Monday August 21, 2023 @05:31AM (#37207174)
Stereotypical movie zombies are brainless but crave brains to consume. They can only die by destroying their brain. They look like humans but are no longer human but a kind of automatic animal. They are innocent in that it's not their fault they are like this and have no interior malice in their actions.

In a way it's mindless consumption on the capitalist frame (Romeros film in shopping mall helps) but also represent a broken or wrong search for knowledge, or brains or direction, dysfunction.

Generally zombie movies are really about the non zombies, the humans and their dysfunction.

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by mrob on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:17AM (#37207479)
Night of the Living Dead is inspired by the 1954 novel I Am Legend, which is based on vampire mythology. And although it's probably not a direct inspiration, it also reminds me of the chapter in the 1908 novel The House on the Borderland where the swine-things attack the house.
Re:A Fistful of Tropes by eesmith on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:55AM (#37207766)
> when drug addiction epidemics entered the popular consciousness

That certainly isn't correct.

The fear of marijuana addiction epidemics was certainly part of the popular consciousness in the 1930s, pushed in part by Hearst's yellow journalism and Anslinger's propagandizing. We see echos of that fear in the movie "Reefer Madness."

The same for heroin.

There's even earlier moralizing against opium and opium dens, connected with "yellow peril" xenophobia as ensnaring white people into addiction.

Re:A Fistful of Tropes by pjc50 on Monday August 21, 2023 @07:40AM (#37208146)
I would note that the original origin of the zombie trope among Haitians was a slightly different fear: what if slavery didn't end when you die? What if there was no release, ever, from being controlled? That you could be raised from the grave and made to do more work?