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Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by frognumber on Saturday August 19, 2023 @07:20AM (#37187635)
I don't think that's the problem.

I put on weight in the US no matter what I eat if I eat until I'm full. I naturally drift up by about a pound a year, and faster if I recently dieted. The only way to lose weight is to be constantly hungry. I will sometimes do that for a few months to get my weight under control. It then wanders back up. I've tried all sorts of diets, including plant-based, and it doesn't help. I need to be hungry all the time.

I find it easy to lose weight in less developed countries, even eating what would be considered much less healthy food in the US (fried fatty food, lots of meat, etc.). The food also tastes more, for lack of a better word, real.

I'm not sure we have any clear sense of what, in out hyper-efficient industrial food economy does this. Come to think of it, we don't even know it's the food -- could be something else environmental.

But that's how my own body behaves.

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by safety1st on Saturday August 19, 2023 @07:29AM (#37187682)
Applying Occam's Razor I think the main contributor for most people is probably American portion sizes. The average American eats around 3,600 calories per day, more than any other country, and way more than they need (2000-2500 unless you're regularly doing strenuous physical activity). Anecdotally a meal in America is just way bigger than in most other countries I've visited or lived in. Once you get accustomed to the larger portion size it's hard to dial it back down.

We don't need a complicated explanation, the simple factual explanation for Americans being the fattest people in the world is, they eat more calories than anyone else.

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by sarchertech on Saturday August 19, 2023 @07:47AM (#37187787)
You can easily tell that’s there’s something wrong with that 3,600 calorie per day number.

3,600 calories per day is the maintenance weight for 350lbs man who exercises 1-3 days per week.

Depending on distributions there’s some wiggle room, but if the average calorie consumption were anywhere near that high you’d expect to be average weight to be about 150 lbs more than it is.

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by collaborative on Saturday August 19, 2023 @08:02AM (#37187877)
The body will metabolize the extra calories _for some time_, but eventually it will run out of coping mechanisms and it will give up, resulting in going up to 350lbs

That's why kids who grow up eating unhealthy can look healthy for a while, but eventually they look like their parents. And once the body is out of buffer, any extra calory goes straight into storage

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by sarchertech on Saturday August 19, 2023 @08:11AM (#37187944)
If you eat more than your maintenance weight, you’ll gain weight. There’s not a long term coping period.

Basal metabolic rate does go down with age, but basal metabolic rate and total energy expenditure are mostly stable between 20-60. A 60 year old burns about 122 fewer calories than a 20 year old.

What happened is that the kid is either eating more, or is exercising less.

A normal 20 year old who isn’t an exercising a significant amount can’t regularly eat 3600 calories and maintain a healthy weight. That is to say, the average 20 year old with a healthy BMI who exercises 1-3 times per week will gain somewhere around 2 lbs per week eating 3600 calorie per day. They’ll gain less over time if they don’t start eating more as they get closer to 350lbs because their maintenance weight will go up.

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by paulpauper on Saturday August 19, 2023 @11:40PM (#37195884)
also, metabolism and genes play a role, the latter which determines the former. people with good genes can increase metabolism to keep weight the same despite eating a lot more than needed, without becoming obese.
Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by sarchertech on Sunday August 20, 2023 @01:26PM (#37201162)
Biology is certainly a factor. BMR varies between individuals (even of the same weight and body composition). However it’s probably a smaller factor than the genetic influence on hunger and satiety.

And despite individual variation in BMR, I haven’t heard any evidence that some people have the ability to significantly ramp up their metabolism in response to consuming more calories.

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by refurb on Saturday August 19, 2023 @08:43AM (#37188200)
This is my observation as well. I lived for a few years with one of the lowest obesity rates in the world - Vietnam. The diet isn't necessarily that much more healthy - it's super carb heavy.

But portion sizes are very small. Workers doing heavy construction work will have a large bowl of pho for lunch. That's like 400-500 calories. They are super lean and muscular.

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by paulpauper on Saturday August 19, 2023 @11:41PM (#37195890)
Vietnamese ppl can carry a lot of abdominal fat--visceral fat especially. bmi can be misleading for these people. and a lot of big stomachs there too. the thin limbs and short statures can create the false illusion of thinness
Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by frognumber on Saturday August 19, 2023 @03:11PM (#37192074)
> Applying Occam's Razor I think the main contributor for most people is probably American portion sizes.

That's not an answer, though. Or at least not a root cause.

Why are American portion sizes bigger?

Why do I need to eat more American food to be satiated?

In China, I'm regularly taken out to banquets, where people stuff themselves until they can't eat anymore. I do too. I still lose weight. Other places, we feast too. I'm then full for a long time.

In the US, I'm back to hunger pangs a lot more quickly.

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by safety1st on Monday August 21, 2023 @12:45AM (#37205588)
Not sure about your individual situation, but I bet American businesses are better at engineering satiety than Chinese ones, because they've had more time to apply more expertise to it.

What does it mean to engineer satiety? An example is Doritos, they are a food which has been very effectively engineered to compel more consumption without making you full. More consumption and less satiety equals more revenue. Lots of American junk food is engineered with this principle in mind.

A roast duck with some rice and vegetables or something at a banquet will have much better satiety per calorie than Doritos and Hot Pockets, or most typical fast food meals, probably even fast casual meals etc.

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by frognumber on Monday August 21, 2023 @06:53AM (#37207756)
In theory, I knew all of that... but I never quite put two and two together.

That's very insightful.

What I don't quite understand, though, is the lack of satiety even from American food not engineered like this. There's a big difference between basic foods like meats and vegetables between the industrial crops of the US and ones from local farms in less industrialized countries.

My hypothesis -- with zero evidence -- is that industrial foods are lower on some nutrient my body needs, and my body wants to eat to get enough.

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by safety1st on Monday August 21, 2023 @09:19AM (#37209202)
Try a multivitamin perhaps?
Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by Red_Leaves_Flyy on Monday August 21, 2023 @10:47AM (#37210252)
https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/environment-and-conserv...

Protein is notably declining across staples. Protein is not substitutable like carbohydrates. Meaning that your body will trigger you to eat until you get enough protein. Conversely, if you have an abundance of protein and the various micronutrients or vitamins your body can happily convert protein to carbohydrates via ketogenesis. One can subsist on a nearly complete protein diet so long as nutrient deficiencies causing diseases like scurvy are addressed. The same is not true of fat or carbs.

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by paulpauper on Saturday August 19, 2023 @11:37PM (#37195867)
obesity is common elsewhere too. not just an American problem; it is even common in Nigeria now. also even people with normal BMI can still have a lot of abdominal fat, as sometimes seen in south and east Asia.
Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by fuzztester on Saturday August 19, 2023 @07:28AM (#37187669)
>I'm not sure we have any clear sense of what, in out hyper-efficient industrial food economy does this. Come to think of it, we don't even know it's the food -- could be something else environmental.

Food or environmental, but in a larger sense, it's likely to be some additives, is my uneducated gut-feel (pun unintended) guess. Here by additives, I don't mean only ones in food, but also fertilizers, pesticides, other synthetic chemicals, and agricultural and industrial effluents.

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by collaborative on Saturday August 19, 2023 @08:04AM (#37187890)
That's why any amount of "processed" is bad. In doubt, cook from scratch. Anything that comes wrapped up is suspicious
Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by fuzztester on Sunday August 20, 2023 @11:31PM (#37205154)
I agree.
Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by mnemoni_c on Saturday August 19, 2023 @08:01AM (#37187875)
IDK if it is universal but once I hit 20s I gained weight rapidly despite eating same. Most of my friends gained weight too. Obviously puberty ends and metabolism drops but I feel like for me it's on the drastic end. For me to stay lean and not skinny fat means either eating not the tastiest food like lots of vegetables or being in the state of slight hunger for the rest of my life.

It feels like there is a pick 2 situation between lean body, being full of energy and being satisfied by food

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by nottorp on Saturday August 19, 2023 @10:29AM (#37189162)
Was it maybe correlated with getting jobs? Butt in chair all day and all that...
Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by paulpauper on Saturday August 19, 2023 @11:48PM (#37195932)
yeah look at almost any celebrity. Despite $ for personal trainers ,chefs, and nutritionists, many still put on fat with age. seems inevitable. same here started gaining weight after being stable for so long. i know my activity level did not change much.
Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by nasmorn on Saturday August 19, 2023 @08:26AM (#37188059)
For me it is more like a pound a week when I visit my relatives. I am the bread has sugar in it. Initially everything tastes way too sweet but if I stay for 3 weeks or so I find the opposite when I get back home to Austria
Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by christophilus on Saturday August 19, 2023 @09:06AM (#37188372)
> I put on weight in the US no matter what I eat if I eat until I'm full.

I’d put money on this not being the case with McDougall, if you follow it strictly. I’ve known several dozens of people personally who have switched, and he has a few published papers on many hundreds of patients. You eat as much as you want. It’s quite hard to keep the pounds on until you hit some natural base weight. (I had to add some fats back into the diet after a while because I otherwise look too thin.)

It should be noted, if you’re on insulin, you need to see a doctor when starting the diet, because you’re likely to need to reduce or eliminate your insulin pretty quickly. Same is true for blood thinners, blood pressure meds, and a number of other drugs. If you’re on a lot of meds, it’s probably worth going through his 12 day program.

I’m unaffiliated— just have personally seen the reversal of supposedly genetic disease and am a fan.

Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by paulpauper on Saturday August 19, 2023 @11:45PM (#37195913)
thanks for suggestion, may try it myself
Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by Yiin on Saturday August 19, 2023 @03:35PM (#37192289)
Re:America’s Obsession with Weight-Loss Drugs Is Affecting t... by paulpauper on Saturday August 19, 2023 @11:01PM (#37195663)
shit genetics is a thing. some people put on weight real easily without even having to eat much or no matter what they eat