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Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by joemi on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @03:11PM (#37137992)
Doesn't this entirely depend both on what its been trained on and what style is being output? But also, philosophically, is it even "theft" to make something in-the-style-of someone?

I believe these questions and their complex answers are the reason you've been downvoted.

Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by coding123 on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @03:21PM (#37138139)
I understand why the person was downvoted, but not why the person was flagged. It doesn't make sense for someone to flag "AI art is theft."

Downvotes because you didn't back up what you mean.

Flagged because there are AI fanboys that want to sensor speech perhaps?

Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by stale2002 on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @03:31PM (#37138261)
I would say that it absolutely deserved to be flagged because it was a comment of little engagement.

It both isn't directly related to the original post, and also didn't even make any particular arguments. It was just a 5 word declaration of fact, that is borderline offtopic.

Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by cercatrova on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @06:35PM (#37140168)
Flagged because it was an unsubstantive comment as dang mentioned and also that it's increasingly a flame bait topic on HN, same as with Copilot and licensing.
Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by __loam on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @07:01PM (#37140421)
Downvotes because the userbase here is rabidly supportive of any new "AI" tech regardless of the consequences, damage, or ethics surrounding it. But of course, we can never take a critical view of technology on Hackernews.
Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by valine on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @03:11PM (#37137987)
Theft takes the original, piracy makes a copy, AI art remixes the original. I’m not sure how to classify AI art but it definitely isn’t theft.
Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by slowmovintarget on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @03:22PM (#37138151)
So piracy may be involved in training the model, but the rest does not follow.

Art inspired by other art has been the way of things for as long as we've been creating images. There's no such thing as a "clean-room painting."

Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by __loam on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @06:54PM (#37140355)
Using unlicensed copies of other people's work in training is the problem, along with what that does to the market for original works. Using people's labor for AI training without permission or compensation will discourage people from sharing that work and ultimately make the AI models worse too.
Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by yieldcrv on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @03:27PM (#37138221)
Derivative works with zero copyright protection due to the predominance of machine assists

No way to quantify though, for or against copy protection

But thats a convenient compromise for now

Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by visarga on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @03:09PM (#37137955)
Why, did you lose your art because of AI?
Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by mcclux on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @03:12PM (#37137995)
"This pixel right here officer; clearly stolen."
Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by dang on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @04:30PM (#37138968)
Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.
Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by __loam on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @07:20PM (#37140629)
I'm honored to be flagged for this comment in a sea of approval for this highly unethical technology.

To make a more substantial argument, I think these AI art devs are really shooting themselves in the foot by continuing to develop a lot of this stuff. Art being exposed to the public does not mean that there isn't a copyright associated with that art, and frankly the developers of the base model, Stability, really ought to have at least talked to some of the artists whose art they used to train this thing. If this continues, it's going to have a horrifically cooling effect on artists being able to make a living on their own work or being willing to share that work with the public, in the apparent absence of protections for that work, legal or otherwise. Eventually, this is really going to limit the amount of training data available to those AI companies, which will end up hurting them and their ability to train new models. And that's without talking about whether this stuff will actually be found to be fair use. Many people here seem to be focused on the idea that all transformative work is fair use by default, but that's not really the case, especially if the transformative work threatens the market for the original, which this clearly does.

I think it's important to bring these points up ad nauseum on any discussions involving this technology rather than blithely accept this as the new status quo, or just some harmless technical innovation.

Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by Zuiii on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @11:26PM (#37142534)
It's comments like this that really highlight the extent of damage copyright has caused. It has conditioned people to think that they can own information once released, and that they can treat it like property. It's a notion that's ridiculous and silly that it gets threatened each time we make a leap in technology (tapes, computers, internet and streaming, and now generative AI).

I wonder how long society will tolerate the nonsensical idea of copyright before it's had enough.

Intellectual property is nonsense and I'm glad it keeps getting exposed.

Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by __loam on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @04:40AM (#37144313)
Until we have an economy where people don't starve to death from lack of food or die of frostbite from being homeless, we have to figure out ways for people who actually make things to benefit from that work. Copyright is currently protecting people who rely on the product of their labor to make ends meet. Until we have the fairy tale economy you envision where artists can have the work stolen and still live, this is the best we've got.

And yeah, wild to think people feel entitled to own their own work thanks to silly things like the entire body of copyright law.

Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by Zuiii on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @02:07PM (#37151148)
The true fairy tale is the intellectual "property" nonsense you people deluded yourself into believing. As I said, reality will continue to slap you across the face with each jump in technology. How I wish these slaps were enough to wake you up from your delusions but alas.
Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by dragonwriter on Tuesday August 15, 2023 @11:39PM (#37142604)
> I think it’s important to bring these points up ad nauseum on any discussions involving this technology

Yeah, hijacking and derailing every distantly-related discussion to your pet political issue has been recognized as bad netiquette since, at least, the early Usenet days, and its definitely not appropriate here. There is definitely an interesting and important discussion to be had about the practical, ethical, and legal issues around AI training and use, intellectual property, and the market for works of the types that models are trained on, but your overtly stated crusade to hijack all AI image generation conversations onto that topic is wildly inappropriate for this forum.

Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by orbital-decay on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @03:02AM (#37143663)
Consider that maybe, just maybe, you are in your own bubble, being blind to what is actually being done. Look at another comment in this thread. [1] Six guys produced 23 minutes of rotoscoping in a short time with just an experimental colab notebook, something not possible before. They made the concept art and transferred it to their live play. What did they steal as per your comment above? The concept of having a body, limbs, and a head?

Several styles in animation already converged to the same playbook to cut the production costs. They can massively benefit from this, as it enables things that were not possible before due to the high manual labor requirements. This is a major limiting factor.

Maybe, just maybe, the point about replacing the skilled artists with prompt-writing monkeys is moot, because this is an emerging highly technical creative field akin to 3D CGI and nobody is actually doing it like the panicking crowd with zero understanding likes to imagine? If anything, the industry is perfectly capable of exploiting underpaid labor and drowning itself in shit without using any AI.

Might it also be that the entire moral panic and the ethics angle was just a viral fluke of a twitter horde amplifying the info noise without giving it any thought or having a look into it?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37142433

Re:Opendream: A Non-Destructive UI for Stable Diffusion by __loam on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @04:35AM (#37144284)
Nice of the corridor crew to rip off work like vampire hunter d and still have it look like garbage. It's pretty easy to understand what they did because they released an entire video about the process.