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Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by matsemann on Monday July 31, 2023 @04:52PM (#36948627)
Did you read your own links? I feel they explain it well. Strict moderation isn't toxic. It can feel harsh, but it isn't toxic. The rudeness is people joining a forum, spending zero effort to understand the rules or etiquette, and then demanding others helping them for free without putting any effort in.
Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by greedo on Monday July 31, 2023 @05:14PM (#36948930)
This view is exactly why SO is dying. It's elitist and exclusionary. It's the same as the grognards who autoreply RTFM to everyone.

SO could have been a place where someone could post a question, and a decent search algorithm could offer answers from previously answered questions; if it was a unique question then it could be opened to answers. Instead, SO decided you needed to earn the privilege of posting a question by answering questions posed by others. That right off the bat excludes a ton of people who don't have the time to wait for a question in their domain, and answer it before 1000 other people.

Sure, it's the Eternal September for tech sites. Comes with the territory. If you don't want people to visit your site (and contribute moderation and content for free), be hostile to new users. Reward aggressive closing of questions. Sure is a good way to drive away anyone but the most pedantic control freaks.

I used to refer people to SO when they would come to me with a question I couldn't answer, (I even have an SO t-shirt hanging in my closet) but now I'd only do that to my worst enemies.

Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by matsemann on Monday July 31, 2023 @05:18PM (#36948982)
> SO decided you needed to earn the privilege of posting a question by answering questions posed by others

This is false. You can post both questions and answers without any rep.

How people get the basics of SO wrong and still have such a strong opinion on how it works baffles me all the time.

Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by greedo on Monday July 31, 2023 @09:55PM (#36951409)
Oh I'm wrong. You get all of ONE karma point to use for either a question (that will get closed) or one answer. Earning karma is fundamentally impossible for anyone who isn't living on SO.
Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by matsemann on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @04:37AM (#36953768)
You were wrong. Accept it, don't be so toxic.
Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by greedo on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @09:49AM (#36955923)
I'm sorry, when did I ask you for tone-policing? You seem to be taking any criticism of SO as overblown, and your comments are dismissive of how many user's post of how they felt they were treated on SO.
Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by matsemann on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @11:37AM (#36957426)
No, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. Complaining about SO in the way you're doing it is quite ironic.
Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by baud147258 on Monday July 31, 2023 @07:03PM (#36950064)
> SO could have been a place where someone could post a question, and a decent search algorithm could offer answers from previously answered questions

It already does that, though. The current iteration of the 'Ask question' page finishes with box proposing existing questions

Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by greedo on Monday July 31, 2023 @09:55PM (#36951411)
This wasn't present when I was using SO.
Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by zer8k on Monday July 31, 2023 @04:57PM (#36948708)
The rudeness stems not from moderation but drive-by insults in comments and rapid dupe marking. That's covered in one of the several answers to the topics.
Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by robertlagrant on Monday July 31, 2023 @05:04PM (#36948799)
Rapid dupe marking is not rude.
Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by chrisjj on Monday July 31, 2023 @07:27PM (#36950285)
Only if it is accurate. And the vast majority of SO dupe marking fails to accord with any meaning of the word duplicate found outside SO.
Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by terribleperson on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @02:33PM (#36960345)
It is when the comment wasn't actually a dupe because of a subtle difference that was missed or because the 'original' question was years ago and all the answers would be different today.
Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by fatfingerd on Monday July 31, 2023 @05:14PM (#36948925)
I don't think strict moderation is inherently nontoxic, it's really quite toxic in a format like SO where no one knows how much effort may have gone in and what level people are at. Strict moderation usually works in conjunction with exclusivity to not just traumatize random members of the public.
Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by moralestapia on Monday July 31, 2023 @05:44PM (#36949287)
>Strict moderation isn't toxic.

And yet, the site died exactly because of that ...

Re:The Fall of Stack Overflow by chrisjj on Monday July 31, 2023 @07:23PM (#36950253)
> Strict moderation isn't toxic

SO's toxic moderation isn't strict.

strict /strɪkt/ adjective demanding that rules concerning behaviour are obeyed and observed.

Proper moderation for rules can be no more strict than are the rules themselves, and SO's are appallingly slack.

E.g. try and find the rule prohibiting duplicates. Mods have fabricated their own definition: "Questions may be duplicates if they have the same (potential) answers" (verbatim).

Using that bogus grounds to close a question that fully follows the delared rules is, yes, toxic.