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Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by danbruc on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:08PM (#36865636)
After skimming the paper, it reads like a legitimate paper even though I have zero expertise in the area. That it is in Word instead of LaTeX makes it feel a bit less legitimate to me and they could of course always have some error in there setup.

The most notable thing to me was that this was done in a thin film where structural defects are supposedly responsible for strain in the material which in turn enables the superconductivity. Probably because it is only a thin film, the material could only support about 250 mA at 25°C before losing superconductivity. So even if the paper is correct, it might turn out to be challenging to get to higher currents. Or maybe not and one could just roll up a wide thin film and have as much amps as one likes.

EDIT: I misread the thin film thing, they also produced a thin film but primarily they describe the material testes as follows without any dimensions I could immediatly spot.

After the reaction, a dark gray ingot was obtained reproducibly and then made into the shape of thin cuboids for electrical measurements [...]

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by klyrs on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:28PM (#36866012)
(note: using language that accepts the claims of the paper for simplicity -- I remain skeptical)

For what it's worth, superconductors have a shared budget[1] of (magnetic field, temperature, current). At 25°C, the material is near its critical temperature, so its current-carrying capacity is necessarily diminished. At a lower temperature, the film should be able to carry more current.

That said, 250mA is plenty of current if you're interested in making a superconducting CPU.

[1] http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Solids/scbc2.html

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by klodolph on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:20PM (#36865842)
Word is one of the most common tools for writing papers. There was a study a while back that looked at the quality of Word or Latex papers. The study found that researchers using Word were more effective, and the working theory that explained it was that people who focused on the research did better research, and people focusing on the typesetting do better typesetting.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by mat_epice on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @02:07PM (#36866755)
I can believe that this is true today. As recently as 15 or 20 years ago, Word was awful enough that seeing through significant technical documents was a terrible experience. Horror stories of large corrupted documents and mysterious formatting behaviors were very common.

Today, Word is much more capable as a scientist's tool.

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by fellowniusmonk on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @02:25PM (#36867047)
Latex is a waste of human potential.

I've done professional typesetting and cataloging with QuarkXPress and InDesign both and it was extremely fast, that's for professional high quality publishing. .doc and .md is fine for information first publishing.

Latex is not simple and is in my opinion just a big nerd snipe, its the intrusive thought of layout software, for humanities sake we'd be better off with simpler tools like markdown + math notation and if latex had been never invented.

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by carabiner on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @03:18PM (#36867908)
Reminds of "command line is faster than GUI" folks who get timed doing every task slower. "But it feels faster!"
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by mavhc on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:09PM (#36868609)
Now repeat what you did
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by iopq on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:21PM (#36868777)
Every task? If I want to rename all of the .pdf files in the folder to .avi I would just do it in the command line

Or would you rather have me google a GUI that lets me "quickly rename" and download a few programs that have this capability? Or do a few hundred files by hand?

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by Johanx64 on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @06:22AM (#36875349)
There are these things called programming/scripting languages, look it up. python for example. And you end up with very short and simple - and most importantly - human readable programms instead of cryptic Unix two letter commands with bunch of arcane single letter flags and other legacy pdp11 nonsense from 1970ties
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by orbital-decay on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @08:20AM (#36876430)
The GUI for that is called file manager, there are quite a few available and they can be far more sophisticated than an ad-hoc command pipeline. If you manage your files on a regular basis (manual sorting, metadata, mass renaming etc), you already have a serious file manager that allows you to do this.

Command line is... fine for doing this occasionally, but it's hardly "quick" or usable for this, I'm saying that as an advanced commandline user. You're just using the tool that you already have and know, and it happens to be the system shell. It doesn't have to be.

(another question is that classic file management at the scale where a sophisticated tool is needed is mostly automated nowadays, and yes there's scripting as well)

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by chihuahua on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:10PM (#36868621)
I think it would be nice if everyone can decide for themselves which software they prefer. Some people prefer Latex, others prefer Word or InDesign etc.

I would prefer not to have gatekeeping either way, both "It was written using Word, it must be fake" and "Latex should never have been invented."

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by fellowniusmonk on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:31PM (#36868956)
I'm not saying latex should be banned or disallowed anywhere, no actual gatekeeping in that regard.

There are big geek communities that lead newbies astray by recommending it, it's a nerd snipe that wastes a lot of brain cycles better used elsewhere. It's only little b bad, not big B bad.

I am saying it's a poor tool, a waste of time and an evolutionary dead end, people are allowed to fetishize poor tools, efficiency, simplicity and legibility are very poor in latex world with a high learning curve for a task that is at best tertiary to the task of doing real research, it's a tool that promotes rabbit trails, bike shedding and procrastination.

And the small amount of research that has looked into this has apparently born this out in at least some small degree. It's not a hot take if it's got backing.

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by EvgeniyZh on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @03:23PM (#36867963)
Ironically, the paper itself was republished to fix figure placement [1].

To your main point, no, theoretical physics paper are almost all written in latex. I can't recall word-written theory paper. Experimental papers are sometimes word, but pretty rarely. You can try randomly sample papers from cond-mat arxiv to verify it.

[1] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by svat on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @12:13AM (#36873003)
> There was a study a while back

A couple of posts about how poor that paper was:

• https://lemire.me/blog/2015/01/14/knauff-and-nejasmic-recomm...

• https://blog.cr.yp.to/20201206-msword.html

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by postmortembees on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:11PM (#36865693)
Yeah, it seems like (to me, a naive layperson) to be similar to how a prince rupert's drop exerts strong forces thanks to the mechanism of its cooling/shape. The copper somehow forcing other structures to form in an atypical way which enables the superconductivity.

And even at 250mA, there'd be tons of different usecases for a superconductor.

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by barelyauser on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:15PM (#36865766)
It is not limited to 250mA overall. A physically larger specimen would be capable of more current.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by danbruc on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:30PM (#36866055)
I got this wrong, they also produced a thin film in addition to bulk material. And my worry was that one could maybe not easily scale this up in case the effect relied on it being a thin film in which case you can only make ever so wide before it becomes impractical or you have to layer or fold the thin film which might also be problematic. But as I said, I just read this wrong.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by generalizations on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:13PM (#36865726)
How much is latex used for papers outside of computer science? Medical researchers I know generally used word for their papers.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by Sharlin on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @02:02PM (#36866660)
LaTeX is of course big in math and physics because its math typesetting is unparalleled. And generally it’s just much more convenient to write a lot of math in LaTeX than a wysiwyg editor once you’re proficient. Outside hard sciences it’s probably not common.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by beanjuice on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @03:49PM (#36868331)
Chemists and material scientists that I have met largely use word documents and not LaTeX.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by ccppurcell on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:51PM (#36869298)
It's a red flag for a physics paper. It's a coffin for a mathematics paper.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by doctorwho42 on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @05:15PM (#36869703)
As a physicist, it's not a red flag... It's a red klaxon blaring out an alarm.

I have only met a few physicists who don't write papers in latex. They are all 65+ and generally work with younger scientists/grad students who prepare the paper in latex for final drafts and submissions.

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by fijiaarone on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @05:37PM (#36869923)
TeX was written in the 1970s for typesetting when there were no word processors by a computer programmer who couldn’t afford professional typesetting and couldn’t be bothered to learn assembly language so he wrote his own fictional one for his book — the same book he wrote TeX to publish.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by Forgotthepass8 on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @06:29PM (#36870551)
>A Computer Programmer

No less than Donald Knuth in fact

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by svat on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @11:56PM (#36872890)
Good joke :-)

This is already very tangential, but just for the benefit of anyone who may miss the humour and take the above comment seriously:

- re “couldn't afford professional typesetting”: Knuth was happy when Addison–Wesley approached him, specifically because he liked the high-quality typesetting of their books (like Thomas' Calculus) that he had used as a student. He was happy with the typesetting of the first editions of Vol 1 and 2, and only for the second edition, when the publishers moved from hot-metal typesetting to phototypesetting (that is, when the quality of the best achievable professional typesetting deteriorated), and he learned of the existence of digital typesetters, that he was motivated to come up with his own solution.

- re “couldn't be bothered to learn assembly language” — Knuth was approached by the publisher in the first place, because even as a student he had become a legendary compiler-writer (http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/B5000-AlgolRWaychoff.html#7) in multiple machine/assembly languages. In fact, the fictional “MIX” that he created was literally a “mix” of various then-existent machine languages (https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/18117), some binary, some decimal (https://catonmat.net/donald-knuths-first-computer / https://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/KnuthIBM650Appreciation.pdf), and MIX was introduced in the book with:

> There should be no hesitation about learning a new machine language; indeed, the author has found it not uncommon to be writing programs in a half dozen different machine languages during the same week! Everyone with more than a casual interest in computers will probably get to know several different machine languages…

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by xmcqdpt2 on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @07:16AM (#36875797)
When I was still in academia in two years ago, there was plenty of materials scientist, chemists and yes, experimental physicists I worked with who used Word, depending on the journal.

Sometimes you have to collaborate outside of physics!

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by BeetleB on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @07:34PM (#36871197)
My advisor was a physicist, and a Fellow of too many societies (IEEE, IoP, APS, etc).

He did not know LaTeX. Most of his papers probably were in LaTeX, as his students knew it. But I remember multiple papers he "authored" in Word, because that's what the student preferred.

I was in a top 10 school (in physics and engineering), and I can assert that the fraction of physics faculty who did not know TeX/LaTeX was at least a quarter, and could be as high as 50%.

All the major physics journals would accept Word submissions.

It's not at all unusual.

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by npsomaratna on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @10:50PM (#36872574)
Same here. The researchers I know in medicine all seem to use word.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by sfink on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @01:21PM (#36865873)
So you're saying it could be a great sensor, similar to a Josephson junction? :-)
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by CamperBob2 on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @05:56PM (#36870149)
It'd be nifty enough if we just got a new room-temperature voltage reference standard out of this.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by nine_k on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @02:21PM (#36866981)
Thin layers can be stacked.

What's more interesting is flexibility. Current ceramic liquid-nitrogen-cooled superconductors are not flexible at all; they are brittle. This can be fine for a transmission line, but makes things hard for various coils.

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by jychang on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:26PM (#36868863)
Meh. Wake me up when Graphene is commercially sold.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by oceanplexian on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @05:00PM (#36869456)
Graphene is being used in high performance batteries for RC use (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-graphene-lipo-batteries....). They can put out a good bit more current than a regular lipo, I don't know the science behind it though.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by shantara on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @05:58PM (#36870177)
Plenty of examples online, it's a matter of purity and number of defects: https://www.acsmaterial.com/materials/graphene-series.html
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by carabiner on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:48PM (#36869254)
> After skimming the paper, it reads like a legitimate paper even though I have zero expertise in the area.

Ummm am I the only one who finds this line hilarious?

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by nephyrin on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @06:10PM (#36870343)
This whole thread is full of Dunning–Kruger victims misexplaining magnets to each other, this is pretty tame.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by jacquesm on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @06:39PM (#36870687)
Or even wires.
Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by mahathu on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @07:02PM (#36870934)
> > After skimming the paper, it reads like a legitimate paper even though I have zero expertise in the area.

most humble hackernews commenter

Re:The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor by danbruc on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @07:22PM (#36871103)
If you read some real papers and some crackpot papers, you can learn to identify bad papers without having to have much knowledge on the topic. Bad papers will, for example, often lay out trivial things at length, i.e. have very low information density. Or they will say things that are incoherent even if you do not understand all the details. Or there will be no references to legitimate other literature. This paper is dense and coherent and does not contain obvious nonsense even to an non-expert. More I did not want to imply, just that it does not look like a a crackpot paper. For a more detailed judgment, for example whether the experiments they performed or the numbers they got are reasonable or something like that, I am indeed unqualified.