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Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by simmerup on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @07:53AM (#36860959)
I'm not jealous of your risk tolerance, that you're willing to bet our world on the on the chance of some magic technical solution appearing.

Imagination is after all, all in your head.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by iinnPP on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:28AM (#36861261)
Has the magic social solution done anything? When do we stop pretending that the whole world will fall in lock step? Did the world all agree that child exploitation is wrong yet?(ask the millions of people still participating)

All things intelligent exist in one's brain and imagination is how each piece of everyone's understanding of the world began.

The social solution requires a removal of freedom. The removal of freedom will involve a war. I would say the risk tolerance isn't black and white.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by simmerup on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:41AM (#36861384)
Did the covid lockdown require a war? Did everyone say ‘fuck off Id rather have my freedom than help fight the pandemic’?

No? Then clearly there’s a path to getting people onboard with fighting climate change, it just requires the right messaging and education

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by iinnPP on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:59AM (#36861556)
I live in Canada, where we invoked the Emergencies Act to handle the loosely coordinated group of people who disagreed with the measures the government was using.

In other words, a group of truckers is enough threat to social order(in Canada) to call in a law that replaced the War Measures Act before it.

This was over a little needle in the arm. The events are not reasonably comparable in the slightest. It is an incredibly difficult thing to become carbon neutral in today's society.

What are you doing right now to fight climate change? I live my words and would consider myself carbon 'negative'. My actions reach outside of myself to positively influence the carbon impact of others.

Also, everyone does precisely nothing. There is no single thing in the universe which enjoys unanimous agreement.

The idea that the right messaging and communication is going to fix climate change is childish. It ignores reality. It is fantasy. I don't intend this in an aggressive or mean manner, it is my assessment of your proposal.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by ThalesX on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:30AM (#36861281)
> you're willing to bet our world on the on the chance of some magic technical solution appearing.

I love how you just throw stuff in my bag. I'm not willing to bet our world, nor can I do that. What I am not willing to do is make my family suffer today so that the people of the world can, tomorrow, get together and sing kumbaya, magically deindustrializing while preserving standards of living.

To me, the risky move seems to be to push away from the magic technical solution and towards the magic humans deciding to do worse for themselves solution.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by simmerup on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:37AM (#36861337)
We don’t need to deindustrialise. Hell, we don’t even need to make our lives that much worse.

Did you know half of all human emissions since 1750% were released in the last 30 years?

Even going back to 60s levels would do us well.

Moving back to simple foods instead of ultra processing. Embracing nuclear power. Driving less and flying less. All better options than sticking our heads in the sand and hoping some country geo engineers the earth in the future.

Because climate change is an existential human challenge, we all need to pitch in.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by ThalesX on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:54AM (#36861516)
> We don’t need to deindustrialise. Hell, we don’t even need to make our lives that much worse. Did you know half of all human emissions since 1750% were released in the last 30 years? Even going back to 60s levels would do us well.

There were 3 billion people in the world in 1960, now we are 8 billion.

What about standards of living on the planet in the 60s? Not just the US and some parts of Europe. How will this be spread evenly on the planet? Do we ask China and India to get back to 60s levels? Do we ask Africa to not make any steps towards industrialization? Does US get back to lower levels than 60s so that emerging nations are on an equal step?

> Moving back to simple foods instead of ultra processing.

Why do I pay almost double for 'bio' foodstuff? Why do people today choose to buy ultra processed instead of simple foods? How do we feed 10 billion mouths in the future without processing? There's a reason we have an abundance of cheap nutrients.

> Embracing nuclear power.

This is innovation, which was my initial point.

> Driving less and flying less.

Who decides how much we can drive, and fly? Can I go visit my grand-dad in the countryside? Can Bill Gates go to the climate conference on the other side of the world to scold us?

> Because climate change is an existential human challenge, we all need to pitch in.

We all need to pitch in with innovative solutions or with votes for politicians that push for innovative solutions, not by closing our AC and voting for degrowth.

> All better options than sticking our heads in the sand and hoping some country geo engineers the earth in the future.

I'm pushing for actively trying to develop new technologies to mitigate the strategy and you are fighting against the viewpoint that we should put our heads in the sand and wait for a solution... I think this thread has run its course.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by myshpa on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @10:24AM (#36862685)
> There were 3 billion people in the world in 1960, now we are 8 billion.

And some of them consume very little, and a western minority consumes much more than in 1960.

https://futureearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/great_acc...

> Why do I pay almost double for 'bio' foodstuff? Why do people today choose to buy ultra processed instead of simple foods

Why is healthy food so expensive in America? Blame the Farm Bill that Congress always renews to make burgers cheaper than salad

https://fortune.com/2023/07/21/why-healthy-food-so-expensive...

The 2023 Farm Bill is projected to spend $700 billion over the next five years, with powerful industry lobbyists directing funds to enrich themselves at the expense of agricultural communities, human health, animal welfare, and environmental sustainability.

Most Americans have never heard of this massive omnibus bill, which Congress reauthorizes every five or so years, yet it impacts us every day. It shapes our food system–from subsidizing factory farms to funding food and nutrition programs, and it is why burgers are artificially cheap and salads cost more than they should.

> with votes for politicians that push for innovative solutions

Where did that got us in the last 50 years? Still business as usual.

> actively trying to develop new technologies to mitigate the strategy

You have one of the 4 classic viewpoints, pretty understandable, but not really realistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPb_0JZ6-Rc

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by simmerup on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @12:35PM (#36865048)
> What about standards of living on the planet in the 60s? Not just the US and some parts of Europe. How will this be spread evenly on the planet? Do we ask China and India to get back to 60s levels? Do we ask Africa to not make any steps towards industrialization? Does US get back to lower levels than 60s so that emerging nations are on an equal step?

Our technology is a hell of a lot more efficient nowadays so hopefully these the answers to these questions will be uncomfortable rather than unbearable.

> Why do people today choose to buy ultra processed instead of simple foods?

Advertising. UPF allows companies to add value to food by making it more addictive/less filling/etc. See the obesity epidemic.

Whole foods take less fossil fuel to create -- less fossil fuel to process, less to transport, etc. They're not even that much more expensive.

> Who decides how much we can drive, and fly? Can I go visit my grand-dad in the countryside? Can Bill Gates go to the climate conference on the other side of the world to scold us?

The expense of how much fuel costs. The social stigma of driving a gas guzzling truck.

> I'm pushing for actively trying to develop new technologies to mitigate the strategy and you are fighting against the viewpoint that we should put our heads in the sand and wait for a solution... I think this thread has run its course.

It's sad that you don't see what you're doing for what it is. You started this thread by effectively saying you have A/C so technology will save us. What happens when heatwaves disable the electric system? When we have power outages due to climate changed caused storms? Will technology save us then?

My whole point is you are being too blase about the existential threat we face. You're not even a minority viewpoint. I hope we don't all come to regret this attitude.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by mpweiher on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:55AM (#36861522)
It's not magic.

We don't have to wait for it appearing.

We just have to build it out.

But we don't, because of irrational fears.

Well, actually countries are starting to turn around and re-investing in nuclear, because governments know that this is the only viable solution.