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Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by pif on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @07:32AM (#36860778)
Maybe there is no way out, but I prefer modern life with global warming to pre-industrial-times life.

And I am sure I am not alone.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by Fricken on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @07:49AM (#36860931)
I've noticed in people a strong bias toward what they're familiar with. How much time have you spent living in a pre industrial society?

There are tribal societies that have been stable for tens of thousands of years. Modernity is an inherently unstable system.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by pif on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:14AM (#36861139)
Stability is not the goal. Comfort is the goal. And pre-industrial societies switched to industrial societies as fast as they could!
Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by ThalesX on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:26AM (#36861241)
I bet people would love to live a bit without antibiotics and access to modern healthcare. Stability through making 12 children and having 2+ survive.
Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by Fricken on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:34AM (#36861318)
Ahh, yes. Kids and their chances of survival...
Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by TacticalCoder on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @09:19AM (#36861770)
> There are tribal societies that have been stable for tens of thousands of years.

With which average lifespan and enduring what pain? What was the solution for, say, a tooth going south?

Medicine was ugly back then. Between 1% to 1.5% of all the woman giving birth would die while doing so in 1600. Something insane like that. We've literally gone down at least 30x.

Also back then women couldn't really decide whether they'd become pregnant or not.

At 17 years old or so I got a medical emergency: doctor diagnosed an appendicitis that was missed a few days earlier for I was under strong painkillers. When it was diagnosed a few hours later I was undergoing surgery.

In 1600 I could very well have died of peritonitis / infection without the surgery. I see all those years I lived since then as pure win, thanks to modernity.

It comes at a cost but I live better than any king has ever lived (except for those who live/lived in modern times).

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by Fricken on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @09:43AM (#36862089)
Yep, we're still 100% mortal, and it's this big thing that looms over everybody. Nothing has changed in that regard. We die just as much as we ever did.

I had a terrible fever when I was 3, I probably wouldn't have made it if it wasn't for modern health care. Beyond that, though, I've only needed modern healthcare for ailments caused by modernity: Tooth problems from sugar and not chewing enough, and also I was hit by a car.

Talking about cruel healthcare practices, though, can you imagine being on your back with a tube shoved down your throat for weeks while you slowly suffocate to death like some of those peeps in the COVID wards?

3 of my 4 grandparents are dead, and all but one died in slow, drawn out and excruciatingly painful ways.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by hef19898 on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @07:50AM (#36860940)
And how exactly does fighting, or by now rather mitigating, climate change require a pre-industrial society?
Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by pif on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:19AM (#36861188)
Because industrial society is based on abundant, cheap energy; and we don't have yet any alternative to fossil fuels; and the most drastic plans proposed are not even expected to produce a noticeable result for several decades.
Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by ThalesX on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:27AM (#36861249)
We have people wondering how to get to a 1 on the Kardashev Scale and then there's also people that want to hit the 0 goalpost. It's a sight to behold.
Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by mpweiher on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:50AM (#36861473)
> we don't have yet any alternative to fossil fuels;

We kinda do. We just have an irrational fear of it.

The fact that we let irrational fears override real and pressing problems is an indicator that the problems aren't perceived as real and pressing enough.

Yet.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by pif on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @09:48AM (#36862153)
> We kinda do.

You are talking about nuclear, aren't you? I agree with you that nuclear is part of the solution. The pragmatic in me just insists that we cut drastically fossil fuel consumption after enough nuclear reactors are in operation.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by hef19898 on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @10:03AM (#36862386)
All numbers say that it is renewables, with nuclear being a more or less carbon free stop gap solution. Wind and solar mainly, flanked by gas turbines, and hydro (pumped and otherwise).
Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by mpweiher on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @12:39PM (#36865123)
Yes.

And that seems like a good idea.

Well, in parallel. There’s quite a bit we can do while we build, but we need to build.

For example, biking more for short journeys not just cuts emissions, it is also healthy, makes you happier, and reduces congestion.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by mandmandam on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @07:55AM (#36860968)
You're not alone in that preference.

Having company doesn't mean that preference isn't selfish and short-sighted though.

Here are some of the planetary costs of the industrial revolution:

> The contemporary rate of extinction of species is estimated at 100 to 1,000 times higher than the background extinction rate

> 7% of all species on Earth may have been lost already

> only around 3% of the planet's terrestrial surface is ecologically and faunally intact

> roughly one million species face extinction within decades as the result of human actions

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

If you believe Sky Daddy only cares about humans, or that we out-value all other life on the planet because we invented rocketry and antibiotics, then I guess this is all fine. But I don't, and I'm not alone either.

Just as we can have capitalism without poverty, we can have industry without apocalypse. It'll upset some extraordinarily wealthy fossil fuel people, but they're the ones who put us in this mess.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by pif on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @08:21AM (#36861204)
> we can have industry without apocalypse.

Just how? I've not yet heard a proposal for a plan that is expected to work.

Re:Deadly global heatwaves undeniably result of climate cris... by mandmandam on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @03:55PM (#36868416)
I suggest you start listening to smarter people then.