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Re:Why even let users set their own passwords? by SoftTalker on Saturday July 22, 2023 @12:05PM (#36827398)
I think you sell older people short on what they are and aren't aware of. I think it's more that they see computer technology as a necessary annoyance of the modern world and not anything helpful. They used to manage their bank balance on a ledger in the back of their checkbook, and that seems easier to them than having to sit down in front of the computer or use an app on a small screen that's constantly throwing popups in their face, either ads or little "helpful tips" about this month's new features.

I'm getting close to 60, but I've been programming and working with computers since in was in 6th grade. When I was in my 30s, paying my bills meant sitting down at the table once a month with my checkbook, stack of bills, and book of stamps. Open a bill, write a check, put a stamp on the envelope, repeat. It took maybe 15 minutes and was very easy. Compare that to opening a different website, with a different username and password and maybe TOTP code or SMS code, for each bill I need to pay. It's slower and more complicated.

There is no online payment method I've seen that seems easier to me than just writing a check. Of course I rarely write checks these days, so I use the apps and websites and feel annoyed every time I do.

Re:Why even let users set their own passwords? by tomsmeding on Saturday July 22, 2023 @12:16PM (#36827473)
I am not at all claiming that all people above a certain age have difficulty with these things! Though it is usually people above, say, 40 who feel this way — and this is not a negative thing: it may well be just because they remember that a different way existed. I.e. most people with tech difficulties are older, but many older people have no tech difficulties.

Though you are also correct that dealing with "technology" today requires a certain level of pain tolerance. Good UX exists but is rare, and authentication is still a mess basically everywhere if you don't want to do OAuth and centralise it to the behemoths. "Poweruser apps" can be extremely empowering, but always have a steep learning curve, sometimes very steep; they can help making your dayjob much easier, but typically help nought with, say, filing your taxes or paying your bills.

Disclaimer: am 25 years old.

Re:Why even let users set their own passwords? by troupo on Saturday July 22, 2023 @01:18PM (#36827966)
> Though it is usually people above, say, 40 who feel this way

and immediately you write this:

> Though you are also correct that dealing with "technology" today requires a certain level of pain tolerance. Good UX exists but is rare

So it's not just 40+ year olds who feel this way

Re:Why even let users set their own passwords? by tomsmeding on Saturday July 22, 2023 @02:00PM (#36828276)
The first was about having difficulty, the second about not liking it. Again, the (fuzzy, approximate) implication goes only one way: having difficulty breeds dislike, but dislike does not imply difficulty.

EDIT: you are correct I didn't word my original message correctly. Perhaps you have a point.

Re:Why even let users set their own passwords? by kelnos on Saturday July 22, 2023 @12:57PM (#36827791)
> There is no online payment method I've seen that seems easier to me than just writing a check.

Autopay. I only pay one bill manually, twice a year, because they don't allow autopay (property taxes). Otherwise I just don't think about it.

Sure, you may not like autopay for whatever reason, but that's a choice. The option is there.

Re:Why even let users set their own passwords? by SoftTalker on Saturday July 22, 2023 @01:16PM (#36827949)
Yeah and I do use autopay for some very predictable things like utilities. I'm not totally comfortable with giving someone access to draw from my checking account whatever amount they claim I owe, but realistically these days a paper check becomes an ACH payment so I figure there are non-zero chances for error that just cannot be easily avoided.
Re:Why even let users set their own passwords? by jefftk on Saturday July 22, 2023 @01:46PM (#36828159)
> I'm not totally comfortable with giving someone access to draw from my checking account whatever amount they claim I owe

It's not comfortable, but every time you write a check you're doing exactly this.

Re:Why even let users set their own passwords? by janalsncm on Saturday July 22, 2023 @02:59PM (#36828807)
Well a check is authorization to withdraw a specific amount (which you can verify is reasonable) after a specific time (which you can verify the funds will be good).
Re:Why even let users set their own passwords? by jefftk on Saturday July 22, 2023 @03:29PM (#36829046)
But the information on a check is sufficient for anyone to initiate an electronic funds transfer from your account.
Re:Why even let users set their own passwords? by no_wizard on Saturday July 22, 2023 @01:21PM (#36827987)
I highly recommend setting up autopay via your banks bill pay system. Less organizations having your account info is a good thing, and it’s super convenient for bill tracking.
Re:Why even let users set their own passwords? by troupo on Saturday July 22, 2023 @01:17PM (#36827955)
> I think it's more that they see computer technology as a necessary annoyance of the modern world and not anything helpful.

They are correct aren't they? None of the modern software is made to serve and help the user. It's made to serve advertisers and be promotion vehicles for product managers.

I am a computer guy. I am constantly and continuously irritated by all the crap in software. I see how my non-techie mom struggles, and it's several orders of magnitude worse for her.

So I totally agree with you.

Re:Why even let users set their own passwords? by gcanyon on Saturday July 22, 2023 @11:46PM (#36832389)
> There is no online payment method I've seen that seems easier to me than just writing a check.

How I paid bills in Thailand:

    1. Bill comes in the mail, with a QR code. Bill says I owe 413 ฿ for power.
    2. I scan the QR code with my phone.
    3. Message comes up from my bank saying, "You want to pay 413 ฿ for your power?"
    4. I tap yes. Bill is paid.
Apart from autopay (mentioned by someone else) it doesn't get simpler than that.