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A comment on Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppenheimer?. Parent comment

Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by p_l on Friday July 21, 2023 @04:17AM (#36811362)
Honestly, it would have had them either way. You can't change the shitshow that was Imperial Russia that easily, and tsarist legacy was hamstringing any reform (for example in the decision to continue the systems of secret police and prison camps - neither was Communist invention)

However they did fuckup in many areas in the economy, something that was recognised internally at least by some - as seen by multiple attempts at reforms.

Also, one can't discount the unbelievably favourable position of the USA at the end of WW2 when analysing this (in comparison, Soviets started with a worse position than many would believe, because Imperial Russia really wasn't well off)

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Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by dijit on Friday July 21, 2023 @04:57AM (#36811607)
A lot of people forget that the reason there even was an uprising was because the country was so poor and the upper class was seen as decadent and out of touch.
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Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by foobarian on Friday July 21, 2023 @08:43AM (#36813124)
Honestly they also seemed to have gotten really unlucky with their last tsar. Makes you wonder how things would have played out if they got someone exceptionally good instead of Nicholas II.
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Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by kwhitefoot on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:22AM (#36814121)
> how things would have played out if they got someone exceptionally good instead of Nicholas II.

It's not just the man or woman at the top who make the country work. Peter the Great and Catherine the Great tried to modernize. But the nobility put up a lot of resistance or simply didn't turn up for committee meetings.

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Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by badpun on Friday July 21, 2023 @05:33AM (#36811828)
> Honestly, it would have had them either way.

The pre-soviet famines were of natural causes - crop failures due to droughts etc. After soviets took over the country, these were still ocurring, but were dwarfed by man-made famines, caused by idiotic economic policies (mainly by forced collectivization, which decimated productivity).

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Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by Attrecomet on Friday July 21, 2023 @06:15AM (#36812081)
That certainly sounds like bs. The pre-soviet famines' causes were directly the repressive, backward, exploitative and simply evil system that existed and forced the peasants to starve so the nobility and select bourgeois upper class members co-opted into the system could live lives of decadence.
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Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by xhkkffbf on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:28AM (#36814932)
Yes. Read Timothy Snyder's _Bloodlands_ for a deeper understanding of just how the peasants were starved. Or watch the movie "Mr. Jones".
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Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by skinnymuch on Friday July 21, 2023 @09:20AM (#36813418)
Everything is man made when it’s “them” (communists). And just part of society and natural when things happen in America’s capitalism. The US doesn’t even have universal health care. I don’t know the exact death figures, but it’s not pretty. All deaths that could be prevented from some basic collectivist attitude. Instead of forced individualism.
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Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by throwaway6734 on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:01AM (#36813857)
The soviets were instrumental in starting WW2. They have no one to blame but themselves
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Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by xhkkffbf on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:27AM (#36814918)
Seth McMeekin's book, _Stalin's War_, is a great way to understand just how they did it.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/apr/06/stalins-war-by...

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Re:Hollywood Movie Aside, Just How Good a Physicist Was Oppe... by p_l on Saturday July 22, 2023 @08:16PM (#36831305)
Oh, I'm not claiming they didn't.

It's just that usually in such comparisons you get to see USA, and USA was an extreme outlier that makes comparison useless in my opinion.

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