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Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by randyrand on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @04:11PM (#36792498)
I don't think racial discrimination is the right term for discriminating based on things that happen to correlate with race.

Everything correlates with race. Height, disease, money, eye color, divorce, number of pokemon cards, you name it.

You may as well call it eye-color discrimination, height discrimination, pokemon card discrimination, etc, as well. It just makes no sense at that point.

So what exactly is the point of calling it racial discrimination then? Isn't every single policy racist then?

Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by digging on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @04:32PM (#36792819)
> I don't think racial discrimination is the right term for discriminating based on things that happen to correlate with race.

Fortunately for people of color, it is. You don't have to say you're discriminating based on race in order to be doing so, and the law acknowledges this. That is how gerrymandered district maps can get struck down on the basis of racial discrimination. We do actually get to look at reality when we are deciding if an act is racist.

Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by cataphract on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @04:47PM (#36793079)
Well, depends on the day. See the Trump v. Hawaii (the Muslim ban case). In this case Trump did say he wanted to ban muslims, but it didn't even matter.
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by tick_tock_tick on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @05:05PM (#36793367)
I mean why would it? The law explicitly stated he's allowed to ban immigration and travel of non USA persons based on whatever he feels like. Non USA persons don't get the same rights especially around entering the USA.
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by rayiner on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @07:26PM (#36794952)
That’s funny because Trump v. Hawaii proves the opposite. Obama was the one who identified those specific countries. They just happened to all be Muslim. Trump said he wanted to ban Muslims, but did so by using a list of countries that Obama had generated based on presumably non-racist reasons.
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by belorn on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @05:11PM (#36793465)
gerrymandered district maps can get struck down on the basis of intention of racial discrimination. Correlation and intent are two very different concepts, and it is very dangerous to assume that everything that correlates do so by intent.
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by digging on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @06:58PM (#36794680)
> it is very dangerous to assume that everything that correlates do so by intent.

Yes but it is much more dangerous to assume that correlation can't imply intent. Because sometimes it does.

Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by belorn on Thursday July 20, 2023 @07:52AM (#36799219)
Indeed. Once a situation is suspected to be done by criminal intent, investigators can interview personal, go through search histories, looking for text conversations and so on. Once collected a judge can look at it and determine if there is or isn't intent.

It is a costly, time consuming and cumbersome process, but the legal system is quite used to it since almost every single criminal case involve some aspects of establishing intent.

Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by rufus_foreman on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @06:24PM (#36794332)
>> gerrymandered district maps can get struck down on the basis of racial discrimination

Under current interpretation of civil rights laws, district maps can get struck down on the basis of racial discrimination if they are not sufficiently gerrymandered.

Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by bandyaboot on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @07:24PM (#36794943)
I assume you’re referring to section 2 of the voting rights act? If so, I find that a pretty disingenuous framing. Can you point to an example of a seemingly fair map being struck down in favor of racial gerrymandering?
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by hx8 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @04:23PM (#36792675)
> I don't think racial discrimination is the right term for discriminating based on things that happen to correlate with race.

I agree, but we shouldn't be blind to discrimination that correlates with race, because enough of it can be equivalent to racial discrimination at a population level.

Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by elil17 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @04:46PM (#36793059)
Legacy doesn't just correlate with race - the fact that legacy admissions are so heavily skewed towards white people is because of past racial discrimination. It's a grandfather clause of sorts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause#Origin).
Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by PaulDavisThe1st on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @07:20PM (#36794902)
Actions can have racist outcomes whether or not they have racist intent.

(obviously one can argue about the intent until the cows come home if you wish, but the outcomes are more a matter of fairly straightforward facts about the world).

Re:Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh end use of lega... by Broken_Hippo on Thursday July 20, 2023 @04:55AM (#36798231)
So what exactly is the point of calling it racial discrimination then?

We should point it out when it happens. Most of us know what sorts of stunts were pulled with Jim Crow era laws. None of these were explicably racist on paper, but we all know they intended racism and exclusion. And these sorts of policies continue that tradition, even if it wasn't meant to.

If a policy winds up being discriminatory like this, we should call it out and change it. Not doing so means silently agreeing with the discrimination. The justification matters little.

Isn't every single policy racist then?

Obviously not.