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Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by caconym_ on Sunday July 16, 2023 @10:36PM (#36753460)
> The thing that boggles my mind his how this 25-year-old grandfathering thing works. I think it's totally fair to allow old vehicles on the road that may not comply with today's standards, but did comply when they were originally made and titled (in the US). But there's no good reason we need to allow people to import old, unsafe vehicles like this.

If safety was a primary concern for U.S. regulators, large consumer SUVs and trucks would not exist in their current form. As of ~2019 (the last such study I know of) trucks killed occupants of other vehicles at 2.5x the rate of cars and "SUVs" (an increasingly useless category as it includes everything from small unibody crossovers to enormous body-on-frame Canyonero-style monstrosities). I am not aware of any comparable headline figure for how pedestrians fare against them but I would put money on their pedestrian safety performance also being atrocious.

They are quite literally an atrocity against the American people, a public health hazard of the first order, and our regulators evidently do not give one single shit.

Through that lens the opinion you've expressed here—that people should not be allowed to drive cars that make them more unsafe—is extremely ironic, because the semiliterate chuds who support the unrestrained escalation of larger and deadlier and larger and deadlier vehicles on public roads make the exact opposite "argument" as a justification of why they should be allowed: freedom, personal responsibility, etcetera. I elide the details because it's mad-libs anyway, not any kind of coherent position unless one discards the notion of a social contract entirely.

I'm not suggesting you yourself hold an opinion like that, but it seems a uniquely American dichotomy that one is not allowed to drive a car that makes oneself more likely to die, but there is absolutely no problem with driving a car that's several times more likely to kill somebody else.

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by 13of40 on Sunday July 16, 2023 @11:13PM (#36753652)
I think it might be a little more nuanced than that. I have a friend who's still alive today because he was driving a Lexus SUV when a Honda Accord blew through a red light and collided with him at speed. Should he downgrade his car so he's more vulnerable next time?
Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by COGlory on Sunday July 16, 2023 @11:33PM (#36753741)
Everyone should constantly buy a bigger car than what everyone else is buying. It's the only way to stay safe.
Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by masklinn on Monday July 17, 2023 @12:22AM (#36754080)
Not me I daily drive a GTK Boxer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_(armoured_fighting_vehic...)

(I don’t actually drive a gtk boxer but it’s the logical conclusion of this dumb trend).

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by emgeee on Sunday July 16, 2023 @11:37PM (#36753763)
Tragedy of the commons situation, only way out is through regulation
Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by ngcc_hk on Monday July 17, 2023 @01:37AM (#36754529)
In general there are many way out.

Open source in IT area is one of the possible exist. Carbon tax is also market solution. …

How about producing one using e in USA. Or …

Regulation meant what and how … it may be necessary. It may need to over-regulate. And who regulate the regulator. Abd how about agency problem.

Mix solution … if it is an easy situation you may not know there is a problem usually.

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by fragmede on Sunday July 16, 2023 @11:43PM (#36753790)
Why frame it as a downgrade? Bigger isn't necessarily better. Cars are a highly regulated product, with lots of testing that happens, and there are evolving standards. In a crash, I'd much rather be in a 2009 Chevrolet Malibu and not a 1959 Chevrolet Bel Air, watch this video for why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB6oefRKWmY.

Where the 2023 Honda Accord has a rating of "good"* from IIHS on the updated side impact test, and NHTSA's rating for the 2022 model for side crash is 5 stars** (2023 data not yet available), it seems entirely likely that your friend would also still be alive today if they were also in a Honda Accord. The arms race for bigger and bigger vehicles is just that - an arms race. I don't want to walk or drive in the world of Mad Max, where everyone drives semi-trucks and have spikes all over them to protect the inhabitants of a vehicle.

It should also be noted that bigger isn't automatically better. For the 2022 side impact test by IIHS, the Honda Passport, Honda Pilot, Hyundai Palisade, Jeep Wrangler 4-door, Kia Telluride and Nissan Murano SUVs all received "marginal" ratings***.

Prior to 2011, SUVs weren't even tested for side impact ratings.

* https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/honda/accord-4-door-sed...

** https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2022/HONDA/ACCORD/4%252520DR/F...

*** https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/most-midsize-suvs-perform-w...

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by ____jes on Monday July 17, 2023 @02:36AM (#36754835)
Unfortunately weight _is_ generally a predictor of occupant safety.

IIHS says:

“Frontal crash test results can't be used to compare vehicle performance across weight classes.… Given equivalent frontal ratings, the heavier of two vehicles usually offers better protection in real-world crashes.”

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/about-our-tests

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by Dalewyn on Monday July 17, 2023 @04:20AM (#36755479)
I agree. My dad always told me that, in a hypothetical situation where I'm going to crash and I have a choice in the kind of car I'm driving, to always pick the bigger car than the other guy.

Bigger cars are safer, for better or worse. Those Ford F-350s will, in general, survive crashes and protect the occupants better than something like a Toyota Camry.

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by smcl on Monday July 17, 2023 @04:47AM (#36755643)
Hasn't this caused an arms race of sorts where these trucks get bigger and bigger to the point where now some models have worse visibility than enormous M1 Abrams tanks: https://carbuzz.com/news/the-abrams-m1-tank-has-better-visib...
Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by Dalewyn on Monday July 17, 2023 @06:10AM (#36756143)
It's definitely one of the reasons cars in general have gotten bigger, you can't deny that better survivability in crashes is good marketing material. Trucks are just among the larger of them.
Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by mlyle on Monday July 17, 2023 @12:39PM (#36760407)
Yes, but it's only better survivability in two-car crashes, and it makes the overall survivability worse. The social cost is greater than the private benefit.

IOW, it's a market failure (externality).

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by fireflash38 on Monday July 17, 2023 @07:48AM (#36756954)
It's this exact line of thinking that explains why there's an arms race going on - not just in larger vehicles, but a literal one where carrying a gun makes one person safer but almost everybody else around them less safe.
Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by newaccount74 on Monday July 17, 2023 @08:07AM (#36757195)
I don't remember the exact stats, but something like 30-50% of lethal crashes happen alone, without another vehicle involved, because drivers lose control of a vehicle.

If you hit a bridge pillar or drive off a cliff, it doesn't matter how heavy your vehicle is.

I'd for these types of crashes it's much better to have a small, nimble vehicle that is more stable and doesn't crash in the first place rather than a huge truck with poor grip that tips over if you corner too fast.

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by ilyt on Monday July 17, 2023 @08:10AM (#36757227)
Well, unless you hit another F350.
Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by Gordonjcp on Monday July 17, 2023 @07:13AM (#36756563)
That doesn't really work in practice though.

I've seen the aftermath of a Renault Megane hitting a Ford Explorer, and it wasn't pretty. The Megane was a writeoff, with significant intrusion into the passenger area. The Explorer looked like it had been de-orbited rather than centre-punched by a small hatchback, with the bodywork in four pieces and parts scattered for about 100m. The occupants did not fare well, and indeed none of the small pieces of the occupants spread around fared well either.

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by ilyt on Monday July 17, 2023 @08:09AM (#36757216)
Well if you ignore damage caused to the target you hit no wonder.
Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by seabird on Monday July 17, 2023 @12:44AM (#36754249)
If you reversed the vehicles the outcome would be the same. The size differential has to be massive for it to matter. Modern safety requirements are stringent and you wouldn't believe how much a small sedan can take in a crash.

The most important safety feature in a vehicle is performance, and SUVs (especially mid and full size) are outright worse, regardless of what your average American thinks.

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by ilyt on Monday July 17, 2023 @08:11AM (#36757236)
Performance need driving skills to be used
Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by seabird on Monday July 17, 2023 @11:52AM (#36759727)
Good driving skills should be a requirement for driving.
Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by kalleboo on Monday July 17, 2023 @09:12AM (#36757861)
> The most important safety feature in a vehicle is performance

Do you have a source for this? I'm honestly curious. In every near-miss I've had in traffic, the only performance that would have helped is braking performance. And I drive a Kei car as a sole family car. On long highway road trips.

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by seabird on Monday July 17, 2023 @11:59AM (#36759827)
My point of view came from personal experience, but it's encoded in all sorts of safety requirements concerning tires, brakes, suspension, etc.

Good handling is also very important for safety. SUVs before stability control are a perfect example of this.

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by caconym_ on Monday July 17, 2023 @01:24AM (#36754451)
With respect, this is a textbook example of anecdotal thinking.

What if your friend was still alive today because he was driving his lifted Dodge Ram 2500 when he ran a red light twelve beers deep and T-boned an Accord, his aftermarket steel bumper severing the B-pillar and decapitating all four occupants (mother, father, two daughters)? Would you still imply that his choice of vehicle was defensible because it increased his chances of surviving that collision?

Ideally humans would simply not drive, but that's not feasible in the world we currently live in, so everybody should be on a level playing field designed not only to evenly distribute risk but also to minimize it. Like I said in my original post, consumer pickups as they exist in America today are measurably incompatible with the public good.

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by Swizec on Sunday July 16, 2023 @11:26PM (#36753704)
> I am not aware of any comparable headline figure for how pedestrians fare against them but I would put money on their pedestrian safety performance

USA is world no1 at killing pedestrians. Most pedestrian deaths per mile driven of any country. 7000 pedestrians die in traffic collisions annually.

Freakonomics just started a 3-part series on this.

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-the-u-s-so-good-at-k...

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by CorrectHorseBat on Monday July 17, 2023 @01:56AM (#36754633)
If I look at the numbers [1] I highly doubt the US is even in the top 50. It's probably just the most pedestrian deaths per mile driven of any country that reports pedestrian deaths per mile driven.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic...

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by randunel on Monday July 17, 2023 @03:00AM (#36754982)
The comment you replied to claimed

> Most pedestrian deaths per mile driven of any country

You said

> If I look at the numbers [1] I highly doubt the US is even in the top 50

The table in the link [1] you shared, when sorted by deaths per mile driven, ranks the USA (2021 data) 5th in the world, with Mexico (2013 data) being 1st.

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by CorrectHorseBat on Monday July 17, 2023 @03:18AM (#36755099)
Yes, but that's only because most countries with horrible numbers don't have any data in that column and end up at the bottom. If you sort by anything else the USA is far far from the worst country.
Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by ilyt on Monday July 17, 2023 @08:07AM (#36757201)
If you look at the numbers and compare it to say Poland or Germany you'd get 2x-4x higher death numbers for any metrics.

Also the fact US statistic per mile are so high, despise it being a big country where I'd imagine most miles were highway ones probably hides even higher rate of accidents in cities.

Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by CorrectHorseBat on Monday July 17, 2023 @10:02AM (#36758360)
Yes, the numbers aren't great, especially if you compare to other developed countries. The claim was most pedestrians killed per mile driven of any country, and that's simply ridiculous.
Re:How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania by Aloha on Monday July 17, 2023 @12:25AM (#36754096)
For those who have not heard of the Canyonero reference -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_Jl5WFQkA