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Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by ethbr0 on Thursday July 13, 2023 @08:23AM (#36708070)
This seems like a great solution -- allow a centralized party to control the front end (and create an audit log), then transmit the intent to the service to act on.

I'd prefer to see it as a non-government, not-for-profit service.

But the ceding of front end control to services themselves doesn't work. We already learned that with email / unsubscribe.

Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by RGBCube on Thursday July 13, 2023 @08:27AM (#36708116)
> I'd prefer to see it as a non-government, not-for-profit service.

Hard, because the government has authority, a random company does not.

I'd still trust my government more than a random non profit company, if my trust decreases, I'd vote for different people to manage the country - which is not possible with companies.

Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by tantalor on Thursday July 13, 2023 @08:33AM (#36708177)
You could run it like the Fed, independent from govt but still official.
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by kelipso on Thursday July 13, 2023 @08:41AM (#36708253)
Why, so they can be shady and funnel profits to private hands?
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by RGBCube on Thursday July 13, 2023 @10:04AM (#36709333)
Ah, then that would be the best solution.
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by pas on Thursday July 13, 2023 @08:45AM (#36708296)
> I'd vote for different people to manage the country

Also not possible in Turkey, but at least this service works.

Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by gizmo686 on Thursday July 13, 2023 @08:46AM (#36708306)
The legal framework for a private company doing it is already there. At least in the US, you can always cancel with a properly worded certified letter to the company. You would probably need to give the company limited power of attorney to send the letter on your behalf. This isn't as crazy as it sounds, its essentially the same thing as title companies. You give them power of attorney and they deal with the DMV for you for things like transfering title of your car.

Having said that, I don't think the market for painless cancelling is big enough to do this given the legal overhead that would be needed.

Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by thinkmassive on Thursday July 13, 2023 @09:16AM (#36708647)
DoNotPay.com has existed for a while
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by hayd on Thursday July 13, 2023 @09:10AM (#36708568)
Does the government really need to know every subscription that every person in the county has? This seems like massive overreach/invasion of privacy.
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by RGBCube on Thursday July 13, 2023 @10:07AM (#36709380)
Well, the government can access your bank logs, so I don't think them seeing you have a TV and internet subscription is an issue. It's a great benefit of having an authoritarian government.
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by Etherlord87 on Thursday July 13, 2023 @11:36AM (#36710897)
The government can access the bank logs, but it doesn't have an automatic channel to do so for everyone at once. Making it easier for the government to spy on its citizens definitely is an issue.
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by dmonitor on Thursday July 13, 2023 @12:13PM (#36711598)
I wouldn't mind such a service being opt-in for citizens but mandatory for companies to support.
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by hayd on Friday July 14, 2023 @05:00PM (#36729870)
Surely, in theory at least, they require a subpoena/warrant. Perhaps I am hopelessly naive.
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by autoexec on Monday July 17, 2023 @08:01PM (#36765890)
They don't need a subpoena/warrant for data that the company chooses to sell the government. It's not your data, but data about you owned by the company. The government can ask a bank or netflix for all their customers data or even for an online portal that gives them unlimited access to whatever they need in exchange for cash and plenty of companies welcome the new revenue stream. (see for example https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/us-government-buys-dat...) This isn't limited to the government buying up data either. Things like access to real-time GPS location has been for sale from every major mobile carrier
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by atahanacar on Thursday July 13, 2023 @02:20PM (#36713774)
Actually, at least for this system, it is more like a common API enforced by e-Devlet with a client on e-Devlet, rather than the government tracking your subscriptions. Every time you open the page for this central cancellation system, it queries the providers' servers using a token generated from your digital key (so you can't query random people's info) and shows you if you have a subscription with them or not. If you want to cancel, it basically generates and sends a digitally signed and pre-filled form over digital mail (kind of like e-mail, but legally binding, timestamped, encrypted and mandatory for all corporate entities - like some sort of online notary).

At this point, everything continues as if this system wasn't involved, but now you have proof of intent to cancel. If they don't act on it in 2 work days you are in no obligation to pay for them anymore. And even if you accidentally do pay, you will be refunded.

Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by stolsvik on Friday July 14, 2023 @12:05PM (#36725921)
This is amazing. Really, truly incredible. How many other countries have this? It should be promoted - I want this in Norway!

Has any of the code and infrastructure been open sourced?

Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by atahanacar on Friday July 14, 2023 @02:09PM (#36727747)
Unfortunately not that I know of. Probably some executive thinks security by obscurity is a real thing. In my opinion any software developed using taxpayer money must be licensed copyleft.
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by brewdad on Thursday July 13, 2023 @05:32PM (#36716286)
What makes you think a government like the US doesn’t have this info? We’ve already seen that they have no problem buying data they otherwise can’t collect directly from individuals.
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by lbschenkel on Monday July 17, 2023 @11:58AM (#36759818)
Even if that was the case: compared to the subscribing companies themselves selling not only that information, but also your personal data to the highest (and lowest) bidder?
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by superq on Thursday July 13, 2023 @09:20AM (#36708687)
With companies, it's even easier: just cancel. Even if (as with Netflix) it takes until the end of the month, at least I can just ditch them. Even if elections are fair and regularly scheduled, you're essentially firing and re-hiring an entirely new company administration every n years. This is incredibly inefficient and probably why most govt websites (in every democratic country?) are pretty bad compared to their private counterparts.

And, there's no real incentive to improve, while with private companies, if you don't like them, you just stop paying for them. That profit motive (and threat of its loss) is very powerful - much more powerful than the "I'm helping my fellow citizen by engaging in civil service" (or, perhaps more likely, "I'm accruing power by running for public office").

That's why this "click to cancel" proposal is so important: it keeps companies from becoming embedded, like the incumbent govt that gets lazy and complacent, knowing that they'll never get voted out.

Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by hayd on Thursday July 13, 2023 @09:08AM (#36708543)
You could do it without the need for centralised party. Banks could issue a cancel notice i.e. a webhook/something to poll that says "this card will no longer be honoring this subscription".

That way users can cancel in our bank app... potentially right next to where we see the line item, and will have the protection of the bank being the one who does so (vs a user clicking something on their site).

Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by superq on Thursday July 13, 2023 @09:16AM (#36708644)
This service already exists (not not-for-profit). It's called PayPal. It has its own problems, but it does make it easy to cancel recurring subscriptions (if you can find where to do so buried in its menus!)
Re:Disney, Netflix, and More Are Fighting FTC's 'Click to Ca... by saxonww on Thursday July 13, 2023 @10:47AM (#36710040)
I think if the government does it, they can leverage whatever they already have for identity verification. If it's a 3rd party NFP they have to deal with that, right?

Either way, my initial reaction to this is great, now we can prank other people by canceling their subscriptions.