This seems like a great solution -- allow a centralized party to control the front end (and create an audit log), then transmit the intent to the service to act on.

I'd prefer to see it as a non-government, not-for-profit service.

But the ceding of front end control to services themselves doesn't work. We already learned that with email / unsubscribe.

> I'd prefer to see it as a non-government, not-for-profit service.

Hard, because the government has authority, a random company does not.

I'd still trust my government more than a random non profit company, if my trust decreases, I'd vote for different people to manage the country - which is not possible with companies.

You could run it like the Fed, independent from govt but still official.

Why, so they can be shady and funnel profits to private hands?

Ah, then that would be the best solution.

> I'd vote for different people to manage the country

Also not possible in Turkey, but at least this service works.

The legal framework for a private company doing it is already there. At least in the US, you can always cancel with a properly worded certified letter to the company. You would probably need to give the company limited power of attorney to send the letter on your behalf. This isn't as crazy as it sounds, its essentially the same thing as title companies. You give them power of attorney and they deal with the DMV for you for things like transfering title of your car.

Having said that, I don't think the market for painless cancelling is big enough to do this given the legal overhead that would be needed.

DoNotPay.com has existed for a while

Does the government really need to know every subscription that every person in the county has? This seems like massive overreach/invasion of privacy.

Well, the government can access your bank logs, so I don't think them seeing you have a TV and internet subscription is an issue. It's a great benefit of having an authoritarian government.

The government can access the bank logs, but it doesn't have an automatic channel to do so for everyone at once. Making it easier for the government to spy on its citizens definitely is an issue.

I wouldn't mind such a service being opt-in for citizens but mandatory for companies to support.

Surely, in theory at least, they require a subpoena/warrant. Perhaps I am hopelessly naive.

They don't need a subpoena/warrant for data that the company chooses to sell the government. It's not your data, but data about you owned by the company. The government can ask a bank or netflix for all their customers data or even for an online portal that gives them unlimited access to whatever they need in exchange for cash and plenty of companies welcome the new revenue stream. (see for example https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/us-government-buys-dat...) This isn't limited to the government buying up data either. Things like access to real-time GPS location has been for sale from every major mobile carrier

Actually, at least for this system, it is more like a common API enforced by e-Devlet with a client on e-Devlet, rather than the government tracking your subscriptions. Every time you open the page for this central cancellation system, it queries the providers' servers using a token generated from your digital key (so you can't query random people's info) and shows you if you have a subscription with them or not. If you want to cancel, it basically generates and sends a digitally signed and pre-filled form over digital mail (kind of like e-mail, but legally binding, timestamped, encrypted and mandatory for all corporate entities - like some sort of online notary).

At this point, everything continues as if this system wasn't involved, but now you have proof of intent to cancel. If they don't act on it in 2 work days you are in no obligation to pay for them anymore. And even if you accidentally do pay, you will be refunded.

This is amazing. Really, truly incredible. How many other countries have this? It should be promoted - I want this in Norway!

Has any of the code and infrastructure been open sourced?

Unfortunately not that I know of. Probably some executive thinks security by obscurity is a real thing. In my opinion any software developed using taxpayer money must be licensed copyleft.

What makes you think a government like the US doesn’t have this info? We’ve already seen that they have no problem buying data they otherwise can’t collect directly from individuals.

Even if that was the case: compared to the subscribing companies themselves selling not only that information, but also your personal data to the highest (and lowest) bidder?

With companies, it's even easier: just cancel. Even if (as with Netflix) it takes until the end of the month, at least I can just ditch them. Even if elections are fair and regularly scheduled, you're essentially firing and re-hiring an entirely new company administration every n years. This is incredibly inefficient and probably why most govt websites (in every democratic country?) are pretty bad compared to their private counterparts.

And, there's no real incentive to improve, while with private companies, if you don't like them, you just stop paying for them. That profit motive (and threat of its loss) is very powerful - much more powerful than the "I'm helping my fellow citizen by engaging in civil service" (or, perhaps more likely, "I'm accruing power by running for public office").

That's why this "click to cancel" proposal is so important: it keeps companies from becoming embedded, like the incumbent govt that gets lazy and complacent, knowing that they'll never get voted out.

You could do it without the need for centralised party. Banks could issue a cancel notice i.e. a webhook/something to poll that says "this card will no longer be honoring this subscription".

That way users can cancel in our bank app... potentially right next to where we see the line item, and will have the protection of the bank being the one who does so (vs a user clicking something on their site).

This service already exists (not not-for-profit). It's called PayPal. It has its own problems, but it does make it easy to cancel recurring subscriptions (if you can find where to do so buried in its menus!)

I think if the government does it, they can leverage whatever they already have for identity verification. If it's a 3rd party NFP they have to deal with that, right?

Either way, my initial reaction to this is great, now we can prank other people by canceling their subscriptions.

Your comment is weird.

OP comes up with an example of a possible solution, and you react like this is some kind of propaganda you have to fight.

It comes out as needinglessly harsh, and you can do this with any country.

I can make up a list of all the awful things about America. But that's just not the topic.

Ahh didn't mean to come across as needlessly harsh. I like the country BTW, and I conceded that this idea might be a good one. Most people are acutely familiar with many of the faults of America, and are probably less so with those of smaller governments. I think my comment was coming more from a "wow maybe they actually did something right with tech?" perspective than anything else, similarly to how I might react if Apple was lauded for making strides in right to repair or something like that, or Google was praised for protecting user privacy, and I hoped to provide some context that most people would lack. But if my comment was unhelpful or unfair then I apologize.

What is the point of this comment?

For more context, prior to this, ISPs would force you to send them a cancellation notice over fax (which nobody has) if you wanted to cancel your subscription, even though they would come to your house to sign the contracts when first subscribing. There exists a law that states "cancellation can't be harder than subscription" and if you intend to cancel a subscription but an easier way is not provided, you aren't legally obligated to pay for the service anymore. Ask me how I know.

Also, "you can sue them" in this context means "you can use e-Devlet to sue a company online, without having to leave your house". It goes straight to your local Consumer Court, who asks the company to send in their defense and then the Consumer Council gathers together to reach a verdict. This total process normally takes around 3 months and you have to do absolutely nothing once you send the official complaint online, but some companies like to delay this procedure just because they can, by sending in their defense the last day before the deadline.

> Also, "you can sue them" in this context means "you can use e-Devlet to sue a company online, without having to leave your house".

e-Devlet is awesome in this regard, I am still suprised lots of more developed countries don't have anything similar. It is like a swiss knife for healthcare, financial and legal services. The e-Devlet app is also pretty fast and the webpage does not suck.

Though I wish the signup process was simpler, because you need to go to the nearest government post office to get an account. But I guess it is like that to prevent impersonation.

Having something this awesome in the U.S. would cut out so many billions of dollars of profit that there is zero chance of it ever being implemented in my lifetime. In the U.S. the purpose of government and regulations are to make it easier for entrenched companies to make a buck. Unfortunately for the citizenry just about all the low hanging fruit in terms of providing a government service to make lives easier and/or less costly have entrenched businesses siphoning money from people.

My favorite example being tax season: The fun mini-game wherein the government knows what you owe, but makes you guess anyway, and guessing wrong could get you in trouble. So we pay experts to make better guesses for us. And some of us know about an Easter egg that might unlock a free guess.

It's a delightful game.

The government only knows some of the information for your taxes. Now, it would be a massive improvement if the government just came up with a number based on your 1099s and W-2s and sent you a bill with "Did we miss anything?", but it's not fair to say the IRS knows exactly how much you owe.

For the overwhelming majority of Americans, W2 and 1099 forms capture all of their income for the year. Yes, some small percentage (less than 20% ??) will have other adjustments to make but that’s why other countries have you verify their info.

Here, if you are a salaried worker, your employer handles the taxes and the mandatory public insurance. When talking about wages, it is always post-tax. Good part is, you don't have to waste time or effort on your taxes, bad part (or good depending on who you are) is, nobody thinks about taxes so they don't know the absurd amount of money they pay the government every month.

If you are self-employed, all you have to do is do the regular tax bracket income tax calculation on your net income (total income - work expenses) and add the fixed mandatory health insurance cost. It is very easy and can be done through e-Devlet or your bank's mobile app/website but many people just hire an accountant because mistakes can be costlier than the minuscule cost of hiring one. Another alternative is to get all your payments through a payment processor that handles taxes for you, which is the go-to option for side hustles.

If you are an employer, you do the same as above, but for yourself and all your employees.

For all the other extra taxes (car ownership etc.) you are notified if you owe anything and the payment is again as easy as online banking or e-Devlet. I've never heard anyone complain about the process of paying taxes. The absurd amount of taxes on the other hand...

Here in Poland you basically get the form with the numbers, add whatever else you need deducted and that's it. That if you're salaried worker, all is handled between your employer and tax office.

WeWork makes you call them to cancel a monthly sub. A tech company, apparently.

Interesting. Does e-Devlet also allow you to track your subscriptions and how much you have paid for them?

No, as far as I remember, the cancelling process doesn't check if you are subbed because they don't have that data IIRC.