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Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by wruza on Saturday July 08, 2023 @01:40PM (#36646716)
So you and me have both worlds to choose from (not gonna reiterate pros/cons hundredth time). You are living in yours, but I have to lose mine.

By me I mean all those people who chose Apple for what it is and ignore Android for what it is, with regards to what we’re talking about.

You have no real problem, only intrusive ideology. Please relax and leave us alone. We’ll speak for ourselves when we feel wronged.

Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by grishka on Saturday July 08, 2023 @03:06PM (#36647667)
As an app developer, I do have a very real problem. I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my users. In particular, Apple should have no opinion on what kind of UGC my app contains if it's rated 18+. Apple should also stop protecting their own products by rejecting apps that cut into their market. But of course, Apple would do none of these things voluntarily, so that's where regulators need to step in.

If you want your device to be controlled by Apple, keep installing apps exclusively from the app store when the sideloading inevitably comes. Just like you can already choose to do on macOS.

Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by plorkyeran on Saturday July 08, 2023 @03:56PM (#36648122)
No, you can't choose to only install apps exclusively from the app store on macOS because the macOS app store is a barren wasteland. The MAS makes it very clear that the only reason app developers put up with the iOS app store restrictions is because they have no choice.
Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by NekkoDroid on Saturday July 08, 2023 @04:34PM (#36648455)
Google Play Store begs to differ
Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by grishka on Saturday July 08, 2023 @04:55PM (#36648669)
Google Play's rules on things like UGC are much more relaxed to begin with.
Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by idle_zealot on Saturday July 08, 2023 @04:47PM (#36648595)
The Mac is from a different time and has a very different user base than phones. By your argument the Play Store on Android makes it clear that the reason app developers put up with app stores is because of user patterns. On phones users are used to getting apps from the built-in store, so that's where they look for apps. Trying to sell an app via a website and APK download just doesn't work; users don't bite. There are alternative Android stores, most notably (outside of China) Amazon's and Samsungs. But both are wastelands, and devices with those stores typically also ship with the Play Store.

I don't think "app store competition" is going to be much of a factor for iOS post-DMA, but I do expect hobbyists and open source developers to congregate around AltStore or something and create a repository of free utility apps without having to pay Apple's developer fees.

Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by johnnyanmac on Wednesday July 12, 2023 @01:36PM (#36698443)
> By your argument the Play Store on Android makes it clear that the reason app developers put up with app stores is because of user patterns

that is correct. If android users were more willing to use alternate stores, Google would have less control.

That said, I do enjoy being able to sideload apps with no hassle. Google may not allow 18+ apps or some emulators but I can find those no problem.

Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by scarface_74 on Saturday July 08, 2023 @04:56PM (#36648673)
So which app does Apple reject that cuts into “their market”?

Office apps (iWork)? There is Office 365, GSuite

Storage providers (iCloud)? All third party storage providers show up next to iCloud when you use the file dialog box - DropBox, Box, Google Drive, One Drive

Streaming apps (AppleTV)? There are dozens and when you search for a TV show or movie, the AppleTV app will tell you which subscribe services have it?

Streaming music (Apple Music)? Spotify, Tidal and Pandora are all on the App Store?

Etc…

> do have a very real problem. I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my users

Guess what? I as an end user don’t want to have a “relationship” with you. When I pay for an app, I don’t want to give every Tom, Dick and Harry my credit card information. When I get ready to cancel my subscription, I don’t want to have to deal with you.

Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by grishka on Saturday July 08, 2023 @07:14PM (#36649709)
> So which app does Apple reject that cuts into “their market”?

Netflix's "you can't sign up through the app" is a prime example of this that immediately comes to mind but there are many more.

An argument can be made that hey.com is, in a way, competitor to the paid iCloud subscription. Yet Apple acts as if they own that relationship and that the app store was valuable in bringing the users to the app: https://www.hey.com/apple/iap/

Do you really think it's fair that all competing services have to be 30% more expensive than Apple's own ones if they play by Apple's rules?

There used to be lots of iOS apps that allowed streaming pirated music. Everyone, including Apple, was seemingly fine with that and never asked where the music came from. But then, suddenly, when Apple Music was preparing to launch, all those apps started magically getting rejected for breaking the rule on "illegal file sharing".

> When I pay for an app,

Stop right here. No one was talking about paid apps. My initial point was about free apps. But if you so insist, in a FREE market, app developers would offer two options: pay through Apple with their 30% tax, or pay directly without it. I'll let you figure out which option most people would choose.

Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by wruza on Saturday July 08, 2023 @09:35PM (#36650611)
in a FREE market, app developers would offer two options: pay through Apple with their 30% tax, or pay directly without it

In reality they will make scummest apps possible and ignore the AppStore completely. Only very big players and those whose primary target is AppStore anyway will offer two options.

Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by scarface_74 on Saturday July 08, 2023 @09:41PM (#36650653)
> Netflix's "you can't sign up through the app" is a prime example of this that immediately comes to mind but there are many more.

He said the app was “rejected” as in not allowed in the store.

> Do you really think it's fair that all competing services have to be 30% more expensive than Apple's own ones if they play by Apple's rules?

Well seeing that neither Netflix, Hey or Spotify allow in app purchases and don’t pay Apple 30%…

> There used to be lots of iOS apps that allowed streaming pirated music. Everyone, including Apple, was seemingly fine with that and never asked where the music came from

When has Apple ever allowed apps that focused on pirated music?

And Apple has been selling music on the iPhone since the day it was introduced - well to be pedantic, three months after it went in sale.

> But if you so insist, in a FREE market, app developers would offer two options: pay through Apple with their 30% tax, or pay directly without it.

And there is nothing stopping you from doing that. In fact, Spotify did that for awhile.

Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by HWR_14 on Saturday July 08, 2023 @06:17PM (#36649338)
You see it as Apple getting in between you and your users. I trust Apple more than I trust you, your company and your software. I pay a premium for them to get in between us and own the relationship.
Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by wruza on Saturday July 08, 2023 @09:26PM (#36650546)
Yes, some ios devs have a problem using dark patterns and peeking into where their nose doesn’t belong, but it’s not a problem anyone wants to solve or consider as such.

We choose it because it repels this “me wanna you should they need to” attitude. Please make apps that obey the rules or ignore the platform. Don’t tell anyone what they have to do for you without a contract.

Re:When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed ... by johnnyanmac on Wednesday July 12, 2023 @01:32PM (#36698365)
>I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my users.

That will be solved if/when they need to allow alternate App stores. But even then, The App store is Apple's own store, right? They make their own rules on what's allowed or no on their store.

I have no issues with them controlling their store (as an android user, Google does the same despite having much less care). I'm just glad they are seemingly being forced to open up for stores that want different rules.