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Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by sfjailbird on Friday June 23, 2023 @06:28AM (#36444988)
Thanks for the summary but you're burying the lede - what the hell is a racist door bell?
Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by rsynnott on Friday June 23, 2023 @06:39AM (#36445055)
While I have no idea, my mental image is that it sings the pre-1945 version of the German national anthem at you when you press the button.
Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by phpisthebest on Friday June 23, 2023 @06:49AM (#36445144)
Amazon suspended a persons account because a Amazon delivery driver thought they heard a racist comment come from a video doorbell...

in reality it was a standard automated response that the customer happen record from another camera but they had to prove to amazon there was no racist comment made, and it took 1 or 2 weeks for them to unsuspend the account

During that time all of their Amazon Devices (echo, alexa automation, etc) were also non-functional

Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by nonethewiser on Friday June 23, 2023 @06:52AM (#36445166)
I don’t even care if it was a racist doorbell - shitty move by Amazon.
Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by zyx321 on Friday June 23, 2023 @07:52AM (#36445592)
That's the problem with giant do-everything companies like Google and Amazon. People should never be locked out of critical infrastructure without (the equivalent of) a fair trial. I mention Google because they have been banning people who [feces]post on Youtube, locking them out from all services including accessing content they paid for, checking the calendar on their phones, and even receiving emails.

It is possible to do better. Valve does what should be the absolute minimum; tracking community forum bans separately from anticheat bans, neither of which stops you from accessing single-player content you paid for.

Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by B1FF_PSUVM on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:47AM (#36447548)
> all of their Amazon Devices (echo, alexa automation, etc) were also non-functional

Great way of not-selling those.

I already not-bought Kindle because of the Orwell debacle way back when. Not-buying any echo/alexa stuff is clearly the way to go too. I just buy from the store occasionally.

Same for Google properties, I don't do squat on anything other than Gmail, don't want that messed up.

Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by NotTheDr01ds on Friday June 23, 2023 @07:00AM (#36445215)
It's a separate video on his channel which is probably a better listen than this one. This one is a bit of conjecture, perhaps true. The other has been validated by multiple sources, AFAICT.

Short summary - Someone had tied in most of their home automation to Alexa and found their account cancelled suddenly one day. They went through the automated recovery systems and were told to contact support, which they did. Support ended up transferring them to an Amazon exec (let's assume "manager") who told them their account was disabled because an Amazon delivery driver reported that someone said something racist to them over their video doorbell (which wasn't a Ring, ironically).

Upon investigating, checking cameras, logs, etc,, the owner determined that (a) no one was home at the time of the delivery, (b) the driver was wearing headphones, (c) the doorbell had done an automated, "Hello, how can I help you?" response to the driver as they were walking away (presumably ring-and-dash or drop-and-dash delivery, as usual).

The driver had apparently, with the headphones on, completely misunderstood.

It took over a week to get Amazon to review all the evidence and reactivate the account. No apology at that point (although I believe I saw they subsequently have).

That's a bad look for Amazon, and the Youtuber makes a valid point that it's a bad idea to trust control of your home to a company that will make such boneheaded decisions.

IMHO, the only correct response for Amazon here is firing at least two people involved in the debacle, apologizing publicly, and promising to review and adapt their policies in response to the incident. Any halfway decent PR department at anything other than a mega-monopoly would be scurrying to do exactly that, but not Amazon apparently.

Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by jefftk on Friday June 23, 2023 @07:35AM (#36445458)
> firing at least two people involved in the debacle

The idea that after a mistake companies should fire people leads to company cultures that are overall worse for everyone, including customers/users. Demand that they apologize, even that they give compensation, but not firing.

Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by hef19898 on Friday June 23, 2023 @07:53AM (#36445602)
During my tike there, Amazon's failure culture, as in yes, mistakes and failures happen, and as long as don't happen twice and lessons are learned nobody gets blame or the axe, was one of the things I liked best.

This whole asking for punishment is what actually drives a culture in which these kinds of things do happen more frequently, because everyone involved just wants to cover their asses.

Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by NotTheDr01ds on Friday June 23, 2023 @09:26AM (#36446531)
Okay, "firing" might be too strong, but that policy of "tolerating mistakes" (as long as it doesn't happen twice and lessons are learned) seems to have created a corporate culture where (if this story is true, and it seems to be confirmed):

- A customer can be mistakenly called a racist

- Their home automation systems they bought and paid for disabled

- Any digital content (Kindle books, Amazon Prime Video purchases, Audible books, etc.) they bought (sorry, "licensed") revoked.

- It takes more than a week to resolve after being provided with clear evidence of the company's mistake. I mean, good grief, at least the manager/executive should have reactivated the customer's account during the review process, but they opted for "guilty until we've taken our sweet time reviewing the evidence and make sure they're innocent".

- After all that, the customer isn't even offered an apology, much less compensation.

This isn't just a "mistakes and failures happen" situation. Failures and mistakes occurred at multiple points in this process and along the decision chain, and apparently no one involved had the common sense to break out of the resulting insanity-loop.

Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by wahnfrieden on Friday June 23, 2023 @08:14AM (#36445783)
Apologizing is useless when the power remains
Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by jefftk on Friday June 23, 2023 @08:47AM (#36446105)
Amazon is a large entity with complex processes. Firing one of the people involved in implementing those processes does not make things better for users or affect how much power Amazon has in the situation.
Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by wahnfrieden on Friday June 23, 2023 @09:32AM (#36446611)
Obviously
Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by CamperBob2 on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:34AM (#36447338)
Someone implemented this process, as well as the policies that drove it. They clearly needed an incentive to think through the PR consequences (if nothing else) before imposing their incompetence on a paying customer.

Firing people for negligence in similar situations would likely have had just such an effect.

Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by eduction on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:20AM (#36447169)
Yes and I find it similarly extreme that a company would disable someone's doorbell because one person claimed something racist was said through it (?!?!). Are they going to set up a little Amazon Ring court to adjudicate every claim??

If Amazon hadn't taken that extreme step in the first place, the stakes wouldn't be so high, and there would be less reason to discipline the employee (for the record I don't think they should be fired in any case).

Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by NotTheDr01ds on Friday June 23, 2023 @12:44PM (#36449313)
Ironically, the doorbell was the thing that wasn't an Amazon product and wasn't disabled. ;-)

And yes, I recanted on the 'firing" part, but I still feel that Amazon's "resolution" here was weak-sauce compared to the "extreme" action taken in the first place. At this point, I'm guessing they wish they'd offered the customer some minor token (say 2 years of free Prime at a minimum) compensation in return for an NDA on the topic. 20/20 hindsight ;-)

Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by eduction on Friday June 23, 2023 @09:37PM (#36454577)
Ahh sorry I incorrectly assumed an Amazon Ring doorbell. (If those even exist…)
Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by JKCalhoun on Friday June 23, 2023 @08:29AM (#36445943)
> what the hell is a racist door bell?

Perhaps a door bell that grew up in a well-off (maybe even a gated) community that learned to fear people that are different?

Re:Amazon cancels my account after exposing account lockout ... by themaninthedark on Friday June 23, 2023 @12:49PM (#36449357)
/b grows their own AI door bell